Flipper Tooth?

[worthy 55]

I think this tooth maybe a porpoise but not sure. Any Ideas?

[Guest Nicholas]

Porpoise seems likely to me.

[tracer]

wow, i don't know, but that doesn't look like what a porpoise oughta be totin' in his mouth to me. but then again, i just remembered that i've never been in a porpoise's mouth. but my kids have fed the porpoises at seaworld, and their teeth weren't like that. they were more conical.

[Metopocetus]

It is dolphin/porpoise. I have found some like this while working on skulls but I don't recall the the genus or species.

[Boesse]

Its from a toothed whale, but not from a 'porpoise' - porpoises (family Phocoenidae) are a specific group of odontocetes which have spatulate teeth.

It is not a delphinid (aka true dolphin), which have more robust, thicker teeth; this is from some sort of primitive delphinoid, or from some kind of 'river dolphin'.

But in the sense of using the term 'porpoise' for any small toothed whale... then yes, but it is important to remember that porpoises are a distinct group of modern and fossil cetaceans with a suite of distinctive morphological features.

Isolated cetacean teeth like this are typically impossible to identify below the family level.

Bobby

[Metopocetus]

Its from a toothed whale, but not from a 'porpoise' - porpoises (family Phocoenidae) are a specific group of odontocetes which have spatulate teeth.

It is not a delphinid (aka true dolphin), which have more robust, thicker teeth; this is from some sort of primitive delphinoid, or from some kind of 'river dolphin'.

But in the sense of using the term 'porpoise' for any small toothed whale... then yes, but it is important to remember that porpoises are a distinct group of modern and fossil cetaceans with a suite of distinctive morphological features.

Isolated cetacean teeth like this are typically impossible to identify below the family level.

Bobby

I was hoping you would reply. Platanistidae/Pomatodelphis keeps coming to mind.

[mommabetts]

Nice tooth.

[worthy 55]

Here is a piece that I found in the same area earlier this year.

[Guest bmorefossil]

it is a sea mammal tooth, i would call it dolphin but i dont want to make anyone mad

[Auspex]

Here is a piece that I found in the same area earlier this year.

You posted that in support of "dolphin" for a tooth I'd posted for ID help in July. The ID? tooth is just like the one you started this topic with; crooked curve, twisty root & all.

[worthy 55]

You posted that in support of "dolphin" for a tooth I'd posted for ID help in July. The ID? tooth is just like the one you started this topic with; crooked curve, twisty root & all.

Yes, that is what it look's like to me.

[Boesse]

Typically the twisted root just indicates that the tooth was from a shallow portion of the mandible, probably from the symphysis, and also that the symphysis was narrow and elongate. Teeth like this occur in platanistids, pontoporiids, lipotids, basal kentriodontids, and probably iniids as well (if not eurhinodelphids, on a much larger scale). In any event, the take home message is that these teeth aren't very diagnostic/identifiable. Rostrum/symphysis fragments, however, are.

Bobby

[screweduptexan]

I cant help much with the ID, however, I think your use of modeling clay as a support for photographing the specimen is ingenious. What a great idea. I have always wondered how to get some of my peices to stand up in a certain way, but gravity was always working against me. Thanks for sharing.

[FossilFreak]

Bobby,

Thanks for the explanation on the twisted root.

Worthy,

That is a cool jaw and nice tooth. Thanks for posting the pictures.

[tracer]

you want a real hoot, read the wikipedia article on "evolution of cetaceans".

[Boesse]

you want a real hoot, read the wikipedia article on "evolution of cetaceans".

Why is that a real hoot?

[tracer]

"why is that a real hoot?"

well...i won't get into the entire article, but for those of us who have not yet figured everything out regarding what happened back when, it's pretty darned amusing to read that whales came from hoofed dog-like critters. there are just a whole bunch of tidbits of what professional scientists consider long-known fact that we less-knowledgeable lay persons consider interesting and highly amusing when we discover them.

but then again, let's not over-analyze why anything is a hoot to a guy who has a jester's cap as his avatar....

[Boesse]

*phew*, I thought for a minute that you were going to say something along the lines of 'whales didn't evolve from other mammals and are evidence of creation' or something like that - PLEASE don't take offense, that is just what I'm used to whenever someone pokes fun at whale evolution, especially here in Montana.

To be quite honest... whales didn't evolve from critters with hooves - this is a bit of a misnomer that is perpetuated in popular literature. The earliest fossil cetaceans (e.g. Pakicetus) looked kinda like a dog, or a wolf - and they probably evolved from a group of mammals called mesonychians, which also look like wolves, and some like hyenas.

They didn't really have hooves, or even really hooflike claws - their feet looked something like a dog foot, but picture longer digits, and a cow/deer ankle. Cetaceans are members of the artiodactyla, and have a so-called 'trochleated' or 'double pulley' astragalus - a feature only shared today by deer, cows, camel, pigs, hippos, giraffes, antelope, goats, etc.

But ya - you're completely validated in being amused at whale evolution - whales are some of the weirdest of all mammals, and the discoveries that placed Cetacea within the artiodactyla (even toed ungulates) only makes them seem far, far weirder.

Bobby

[Fat Boy]

I cant help much with the ID, however, I think your use of modeling clay as a support for photographing the specimen is ingenious. What a great idea. I have always wondered how to get some of my peices to stand up in a certain way, but gravity was always working against me. Thanks for sharing.

Yep, I agree. I've run into this problem while photographing fossils and this is the perfect solution. Thanks also to you and also screweduptexan for pointing that out.

I find this entire thread fascinating.

[Boesse]

Another really good tip - for larger (but delicate) fossils - I use a sandbox. While it is easy to photography some large fossils, if you have a partial skeleton to photograph, it is usually relatively straight forward to articulate the skeleton on its side in the sandbox.

Bobby

[mommabetts]

Another really good tip - for larger (but delicate) fossils - I use a sandbox. While it is easy to photography some large fossils, if you have a partial skeleton to photograph, it is usually relatively straight forward to articulate the skeleton on its side in the sandbox.

Bobby

[/quote I had never thought about that, that is a good idea. Thanks for sharing.