Plantguy Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Hi Gang, Need some more help from you all. (Vulcan Mine, Brooksville,FL Suwannee Formation, Oligocene). Its a partial but you can see one of the petals (2.8cm long) fairly clearly and some of the detail and patterns of the surrounding tubercles. There is another large echinoid fragment (its upside down though) sitting directly beneath it. Not sure if that is somehow part of this test that got flipped over or perhaps just another of the abundant Ryncholampus gouldi's at this site...matrix is pretty hard and I dont think I can do much more cleaning! So far I've seen/collected a bunch of the R.gouldi's and lots of fragments of Clypeaster rogersi at this site but this specimen appears to be different based on the abundance and larger size of the tubercles. For those that noticed, the specimen is indeed sitting on a cassette tape! Please let me know if you see anything familiar. Thanks! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Right now doesn't fit any found at the mine. Looks like only a small portion of the echinoid is showing, for me, more view is better. It, for sure is interesting but just not enough showing, measurement of the ech. would also help. From what I see it is a frag. not a complete ech., is that correct?----Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I don't recognize it either. You may want to send it or images to Roger Portell at the FSM. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Just a casual observation that the features appear to be generally consistent with Eupatagus. There is plenty of variability among the few species that I looked at but the attached example has similar characteristics that might be in the ballpark of possibilities to narrow it down to the correct genus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 The way the fasciole runs next to the petal is similar to some species of Agassizia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Chris..... Thats looks a very nice specimen and rare to judging the comments.... Are you going to have a go at prepping it?.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Right now doesn't fit any found at the mine. Looks like only a small portion of the echinoid is showing, for me, more view is better. It, for sure is interesting but just not enough showing, measurement of the ech. would also help. From what I see it is a frag. not a complete ech., is that correct?----Tom Tom, thanks for the feedback. Yep just a partial, I maybe have 1/3 of the top of the specimen and I now believe I am seeing a portion of the bottom and its not from another specimen. Not sure how it would get flipped but maybe nearshore where there was some churning and breaking of shells. Its pretty good sized, radius a little wider than 1.25 inches/3.5cm so it much have been about 2.5 inches wide when whole. Here's a new soso picture after I picked at it some more.... Regards, Chris I don't recognize it either. You may want to send it or images to Roger Portell at the FSM. Thanks Harry for looking. Will shoot some pictures to Roger and see what he says. Will let you all know. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foshunter Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Looks like Eupatagus antillarum but didn't know they were found in Vulcan----Tom Grow Old Kicking And Screaming !!"Don't Tread On Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Just a casual observation that the features appear to be generally consistent with Eupatagus. There is plenty of variability among the few species that I looked at but the attached example has similar characteristics that might be in the ballpark of possibilities to narrow it down to the correct genus. Eupatagus.jpg Scott, thanks!...I was poking around and saw these examples and saw that Genus.....http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/gallery.asp?gallery=Florida%20Echinoidea thanks for your input!...could very well indeed be that guy. Will keep you all posted. Regards, Chris The way the fasciole runs next to the petal is similar to some species of Agassizia. Thanks! I saw that genus as well in the listing...could be....I dont know much of anything about echinoids but I noticed that feature as well..thanks for giving me the name for it! I was going to call it a Chrysler star hood ornament outline...hows that for a description! Maybe some day I'll pickup echy speak! Will post the ID when I get it. thanks. Regards, Chris Chris..... Thats looks a very nice specimen and rare to judging the comments.... Are you going to have a go at prepping it?.... Steve, thanks! we'll see how the ID turns out.....sounds promising so far. Actually I should have taken an initial photo to show you what caught my eye but it seemed like just a small echinoid plate....I thought it was going to be one of the sea urchins that I've seen from there after a couple minutes...then spent about 2hrs and it just kept revealing more, then I ran into the edges and thought I was done but decided to give it another go after my initial post. Will keep you all posted. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Looks like Eupatagus antillarum but didn't know they were found in Vulcan----Tom Hi Tom, just missed your post as I was adding replies to the others...sort of does I agree, I saw that genus/species--- does it have a well defined fasciole like al dente mentioned??? Is that a feature that is always noticeable or only in certain levels of preservation? Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I don't think that this is the Late Eocene Eupatagus antillarum . . . that was the first echinoid I checked. Note that the interambulacral tubercles are randomly distributed in your specimen, while they are regularly distributed in E. antillarum. There are other species of Eupatagus, no doubt an Oligocene species, and there are other large echinoids . . . it's just that I don't know which might occur in that locale. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 I don't think that this is the Late Eocene Eupatagus antillarum . . . that was the first echinoid I checked. Note that the interambulacral tubercles are randomly distributed in your specimen, while they are regularly distributed in E. antillarum. There are other species of Eupatagus, no doubt an Oligocene species, and there are other large echinoids . . . it's just that I don't know which might occur in that locale. echinoideupatagusantillarum.jpg Hi Harry, thanks for the additional info. I took your suggestion and have already heard back from Roger! He suspects its one of the "new Oligocene brissid echinoids" that they are currently working on describing. I asked and its not Agassizia, nor Eupatagus. Eupatagus is closer, but not correct. They are hoping to submit a paper later this year. I've been asked to donate the specimen which I will gladly do. Thanks for your help and everyone else who took a look! Will keep you posted! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I took your suggestion and have already heard back from Roger! He suspects its one of the "new Oligocene brissid echinoids" that they are currently working on describing. I searched the internet for Brissus and found this paper " Echinoid fauna from a Late Oligocene (Chattian) reef at Damon Mound, Brazoria County, Texas" 2006 by Zachos and Molineux. They have a nice photo of Brissus exiguus and it is very similar to your fossil. Nice find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 I searched the internet for Brissus and found this paper " Echinoid fauna from a Late Oligocene (Chattian) reef at Damon Mound, Brazoria County, Texas" 2006 by Zachos and Molineux. They have a nice photo of Brissus exiguus and it is very similar to your fossil. Nice find. Thanks Al Dente, I was looking around trying to find something as well. Looks plausible. Sounds like from what I'm told the description is being based on mostly material from the Marianna Limestone here in Florida. I'm wondering if that formation/strata somehow has shown up here in this quarry....will see what they tell us when the writeup comes out. Thanks for taking a look! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther R. Lobisch Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) I recently found two Brissids at Vulcan which are being named from casts found in Marianna, Fl. The two from Vulcan will probably become the holotypes for the species. My friend Adam Osborn is finishing up the paper now. I've forwarded your picture to him as he will know if it's new or is a known species. It looks nothing like mine and is not E antillarum. I hope Alan is able to get the dozer back down there to gouge a little deeper, we'll see in the fall. Will let you know what Adam comes up with. Gunther P.S. This layer which contains the rogeri also is being compared to the Marianna fauna which also contains many rogeri. G Edited May 31, 2013 by Gunther R. Lobisch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Hi Gunther. Interesting updates indeed. Congrats on your finds! My specimen got sent to the Museum of Natural History this week and was supposed to get delivered today. Will look forward to any info that Adam can offer on this new stuff. Thanks for your post! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 To me it looks similar to Macropneustes mortoni (Conrad, 1850) a wide spread Upper Eocene spantagoid. Although it has not been reported past the Eocene in Florida, it has been found in the Lower Oligocene Bridgeboro Limestone in Alabama. Mike 1 "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Mike, thanks for looking and your post. After seeing it I took a look at some web images of that guy....Could be?...I'm just out of my league on this stuff so I defer to you all invert experts especially when I only have part of this guy to compare things to..... We'll have to sit tight for moment....thanks again for checking it out! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 I recently found two Brissids at Vulcan which are being named from casts found in Marianna, Fl. The two from Vulcan will probably become the holotypes for the species. My friend Adam Osborn is finishing up the paper now. I've forwarded your picture to him as he will know if it's new or is a known species. It looks nothing like mine and is not E antillarum. I hope Alan is able to get the dozer back down there to gouge a little deeper, we'll see in the fall. Will let you know what Adam comes up with. Gunther P.S. This layer which contains the rogeri also is being compared to the Marianna fauna which also contains many rogeri. G Hi Gunther, Maybe you are already know this stuff. Sad news arrived in the mail today from the TB fossil club. It was neat to see they are gearing up for the new collecting season with upcoming meetings/events/trips but their newsletter had a small blurb about business picking up at Vulcan so there will be no field trips to Brooksville for the 2013-2014 season. A major--Oh darn it! Hoping Alan Pagels can figure out something for future trips.... Roger also says that they are still working on writing up the finds from earlier in the year. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewuff Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 snarge that's nice! I've been looking for one. Allan Pagle has the name of it. I've only got pieces. Could be eupatagus clevei. NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 snarge that's nice! I've been looking for one. Allan Pagle has the name of it. I've only got pieces. Could be eupatagus clevei. NICE! Thanks Lonewuff. I'm hoping someday we can get back there...doesnt sound to promising at the moment. Hoping Alan is able to get the article out in the near future but I know that sometimes that can be a really lengthy process. Would love to see more of the critters! Thanks for looking. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now