FossilFreak Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Lee creek reject material. Upside down and reverse side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Now that is one strange looking tooth. It almost looks like the root and tooth itself seperated and filled with matrix. No clue, but it is neat looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Lee creek reject material. Upside down and reverse side A very lateral tooth or intermediate Carcharias tooth? http://www.mbfossilcrabs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Perhaps it is an undeveloped "inner whorl" tooth? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilFreak Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Perhaps it is an undeveloped "inner whorl" tooth? sorry, what's an inner whorl? One of the back rows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I've never seen one, but what immediately popped into my head was a posterior cow shark tooth, likely Notorhynchus. There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 sorry, what's an inner whorl? One of the back rows? "Whorl" might not be the right term; I'm thinking of the youngest, innermost developing teeth on the conveyer belt. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 A very lateral tooth or intermediate Carcharias tooth? Posterior tooth http://www.mbfossilcrabs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 It looks like an extreme posterior sand shark tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilFreak Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 "Whorl" might not be the right term; I'm thinking of the youngest, innermost developing teeth on the conveyer belt. gotcha, that's what I thought, but just checking. Interesting theory. Norther shark. Thanks for the input. Cow shark may explain the ratio of root to tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 that is odd the root part is so big and flat, most sand tigers would have a thicker root wouldnt they? With the tooth being as flat as it is could it be a juvenile posterior mako? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makoken Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Lee creek reject material. Upside down and reverse side To me it does look like a bramble. Are there any squalus (dogfish sharks) in the lee creek area? Could be that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 gotcha, that's what I thought, but just checking. Interesting theory.Norther shark. Thanks for the input. Cow shark may explain the ratio of root to tooth. Extreme posterior cow shark teeth have no points on them. They are 90% root with a thin ridge of enamel that runs the length of the tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbstedman Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 To me it does look like a bramble. Are there any squalus (dogfish sharks) in the lee creek area? Could be that Yes, there are dogfish at Lee Creek. Fossilfreak, you might check out Squalus on elasmo.com just to cover all of your bases. Besides fossils, I collect roadcuts, Stream beds, Winter beaches: Places of pilgrimage. Jasper Burns, Fossil Dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenixflood Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It does look like a cow shark, but is most likely bramble. Could it be the middle (center) tooth? Most brambles have a sharp central point that jut from the middle to the other side, yours does not. However, cow shark have the long root, like the one that you have. It is very perplexing and I can see why you posted it. Anyway. great find! The soul of a Fossil Hunter is one that is seeking, always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brsr0131 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 i have found 3 of these in the reject material. I think they are the very extreme posterior teeth. im not to certain of what kind because they get really distorted to what the real type of shark that it is being that far back. Take a look at a modern jaw if you have one and you will see all the little nubby teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl O'Cles Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 It's not a bramble or a cow shark tooth. It is most likely an extreme posterior of some type of species. Most likely some type of sand tiger as others have said. They start to get cusps instead of denticles as you get to these far posterior positions. There is also a slim posibility that it is a posterior mako. Some makos do possess cusplets but i would put my money on some type of sand tiger. Oh, Almost forgot to compliment you on you collecting container in your picture fossilfreak. I love those little M&M’s containers as well for smaller teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 "Whorl" might not be the right term; I'm thinking of the youngest, innermost developing teeth on the conveyer belt. I've used the term "whorl" in the past to describe the verticle file of developing teeth in a shark jaw. It may be that the term "whorl" is better reserved for the bizarre "symphysial tooth whorl" as in the Permian shark Helicoprion sp. Perhaps "developing tooth file" would be more accurate. There is a German word adapted to English, anlage (pl. anlagen) that suggests "germ tooth." (Pronunciation would be something like AHN.lah.geh and AHN.lah.gen with a hard "g". German-speakers feel free to jump in here! ) Here's how the term "anlage" is used in one case: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 the term "anlage" as used in the illustration was referring to the embryonic cells of a developing tooth which were pierced by the barb, not the whole rows of teeth. it would appear that "anlage" has made the leap into english as a term used in embryology, but the word in german has 30 or more meanings dependent upon context, and it would be an imprecise and potentially confusing means of describing the "conveyor-belt-like" mechanism whereby shark teeth are staged and pulled over onto the primary row of a shark's jaw. the etymology of the verb "anlagen", from which the noun derives, means basically "to lay on", hence its broad range of applications in meaning. it is my sense that a new word should be created by fossil forum members for the shark tooth rows and conveyor apparatus, and that the membership should then, through extensive use, posting, and slinging around the word in speech, impose it inexorably on the scientific community until it sticks. I nominate the word, "ueberslashereinsetzendsysteme" for this purpose, but i'm sure i could think of better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 p.s. - english speakers trying to pronounce an umlauted "U" (ue) hurt my ears so badly that i'm not going to try to post a hooked-on-phonics pronunciation aide for my pseudoword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pristiformes Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I like these small, interesting fossil teeth . It's a challenge to identify them, and they are more interesting than some of the really large toothed species to me. I have a hard time identifying some of the less common fossil shark teeth. That said, I have a large collection of modern shark dental sets from which to compare to the photos of your tooth with. I do not think it came from a sandtiger, as my Carcharias taurus and Odontaspis ferox jaws have lateral teeth that look nothing like the tooth in question. My Echinorhinus brucus jaw lateral teeth look somewhat similar to the tooth in question, but I don't think it is that. The closest I can come to your fossil tooth, based on modern dentition from western central Atlantic shark species, is the genus Centrophorus. Centrophorus granulosus (the gulper shark) has teeth that look closer to the fossil tooth, but not dead-on. Other possible contenders seem to be Squalus (based on S. acanthias), Cirrhigaleus (based on C. asper), and maybe a lower tooth from Centroscymnus coelolepis. The fossil tooth has sholders that look different than anything I have in my collection, althought I haven't looked really hard to match it up. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybodus Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Extreme Posterior, and certainly a Lamniforme... based on crown characteristics, I would label it as Carcharias taurus if it was in my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl O'Cles Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Extreme Posterior, and certainly a Lamniforme... based on crown characteristics, I would label it as Carcharias taurus if it was in my collection. I agree with hybodus here, i stated earlier that i thought it was an extreeme posterior of some type of sand tiger. I have finally had some time to dig into my books and other documents and refer you to A comparison of isolated teeth of early Eocene Striatolamia macrota (Chondrichthyes, Lamniformes), with those of a Recent sand shark, Carcharias taurus. by Cunningham On pages 10 and 14 there are teeth from C. Tarus that are an exact match of the tooth you have pictured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pristiformes Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Lee creek reject material. Upside down and reverse side Just to be clear, I'm referring to the tooth in the photos posted 22 November, from FossilFreak, that shows a very high root-to-tooth ratio and with a very squared-off root. To me, it's like no lamnoid at all. Unless the majority of what I'm calling root is actually just matrix sandwiched between the root and cusp/lateral cusplets, I'm not seeing how it could be a lamnoid. However, since I'm new to identifying tricky fossil shark teeth, I'll defer to you to guys on this one, Hybotus and Carl O' Cles, in saying that well maybe it is from a Carcharias taurus or other sandtiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I agree with hybodus here, i stated earlier that i thought it was an extreeme posterior of some type of sand tiger. I have finally had some time to dig into my books and other documents and refer you to A comparison of isolated teeth of early Eocene Striatolamia macrota (Chondrichthyes, Lamniformes), with those of a Recent sand shark, Carcharias taurus. by Cunningham On pages 10 and 14 there are teeth from C. Tarus that are an exact match of the tooth you have pictured Thanks for the research, Carl . . . how about weighing in on the "lateral Cretalamna or Otodus?" thread. Can you scan and post the illustration from Cunningham's paper? Under copyright law, you can do that for educational purposes without a problem, I think. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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