18 Mile Creek

[jgcox]

Just received the plans for our yearly fossil trip to Hamburg which includes a trip to 18 mile creek. The plans have been changed because the police are enforcing "no trespassing" zones along the access of the creek bank. How is this even possible along a navigatiable waterway?? What about access to Lake Erie shoreline? Anyone from that area have any info??

[Auspex]

...the police are enforcing "no trespassing" zones along the access of the creek bank. How is this even possible along a navigatiable waterway?? ...

If you came in by boat, and stay in the water, you would be within your rights. Traversing private property without the owner's permission, however, can be trespass. Have the access points been posted?

[xonenine]

At Section 8, new Private Property /No Trespassing zones have been more than clearly marked, I see the signs have been posted not only every 50 Ft. or so, but out in the sand on the actual beaches. As there are 2 or 3 Private Beaches adjacent, I am not particularly surprised. Personally, I took heed, and ended my last trip rather promptly...

There are many other sections of note, one can walk up these creeks as far as I know as of now, without restriction. I plan to visit the other 7 sections described by Grabeau, this is a better reason than many. If people keep going to the beaches despite the restrictions, I would expect the restrictions to tighten even more...

[xonenine]

If you came in by boat, and stay in the water, you would be within your rights. Traversing private property without the owner's permission, however, can be trespass. Have the access points been posted?

it is the beach entrances at the mouth of 18 MC, and beaches only that are posted.

[jgcox]

Never fails inconsiderate people screw up things for everyone.

[fossilcrazy]

Pressure from the 2%, rears it's ugly head again. As a life long resident of WNY, I can give you a little background info on 18 Mile Creek. In the early nineties and before, access was easy and unabated. The wealthy lake front property owners formed an association to eliminate the easement for fishermen, nature walkers, picture takers and fossil hunters with physical barriers and "no parking" signs used to enforce their wishes. Those who persisted in the easy "now illegal parking" got their vehicles towed or tickets for $15, that if weren't paid in 10 days jumped to $35. A friendly home owner at the creek, opened his property to parkers who would then use creek right-of-way. The 2% association pressured the municipality to have his house condemned and got their way! The house was razed and is gone now. Seems like a pretty severe penalty for going against the neighboring lake front association. If you found a way there without the parking problem, things were still not hunky dory. I've had rocks thrown at me from the cliffs above (not pebbles loosening from the face). A professional geologist doing a study of the strata was told he cannot be digging in the creek by a landowner, though he was within public right-of-way. I believe in landowner rights, but some of them bulldog anyone near their land and use intimidation rather than actual landowner rights they might have. In New York you must have ownership of both sides of the creek to control easement. The strong headed bullying doesn't pertain to just near 18 Mile Creek. Anywhere on Old Lakeshore Road there is no parking permitted.

There are places "no pedestrian traffic" is even allowed on sidewalks by the Wanakah shore for "safety reasons" even though there are pylons and metal barriers between the road and sidewalks.

At one time there was an actual beach access on the Old Lakeshore Road. The owner of the property was friendly to neighbors and fossil collectors and allowed foot traffic over his property and use his staircase to descend to the beach. When he was to move to Florida and put the property up for sale, I couldn't justify paying $5,000 for the small piece of land. The sale went to another beach front association. Before the sale was made the leader of the association promised me and the owner that fossil collectors would still be allowed to use the property for beach access. That was a lot of bull. Since nothing was put in writing, the new owning association made it "members only" key holding access was allowed and if you weren't a local resident you could not be a member. The "public beach" (Locksley Park) isn't really public. Since Town of Hamburg pays to keep the beach clean, only Hamburg residents are allowed in. If you noticed a trend, to put it simple, the local residents do not want outsiders near their lake and the have the collective oomph to make it happen the way they want it - period! Sorry fossil collectors we're on the other side of the wall and without enough clout to fight our way out of a ticket.

I'll play the devils advocate and include the fact that local lakefront owners would have under age juveniles drinking on the beach, people building bonfires that sent the smoke to the area houses. Garbage and broken bottles litter an otherwise nice environment. There were occasional fossil collectors who would dig into the cliff face. That was always a no-no. Who screwed this up? You tell me, was it the outside visitors or the snobbish residents?

Edited June 4, 2013 by fossilcrazy

[Missourian]

That probably explains why we followed the "Seaway Trail" along Lake Ontario, but almost never saw the lake.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Missourian

[FossilDAWG]

So for the sake of clarity, is it now possible to access the shore outcrops without a boat? Is there anywhere to park near the creek, or would you have to have someone drop you off and come back later to pick you up?

Don

[Shamalama]

I've not had any issues yet with the locals if I followed access in from 18 mile creek. My recent trip was to the south side of the creek/shoreline and I did not see any signs posted on the beach shoreline or creek. I did not go on the northside though so I'm not sure how that looks. I did notice that the locals dump their leaves/branches/clean fill over the side of the cliff often. At one point I was walking back along the creek and someone dumped a wheelbarrow load of dirt just ahead of me from above. I didn't say anything and didn't see anyone so I assumed it was just random.

I don't dig in the cliff face as I don't want to cause a slide or have stuff otherwise fall on me. It's surface collecting and splitting fallen rock for me.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Shamalama

[Shamalama]

So for the sake of clarity, is it now possible to access the shore outcrops without a boat? Is there anywhere to park near the creek, or would you have to have someone drop you off and come back later to pick you up?

Don

You can park at a public fishing access point right next to the creek. From there you can walk to the beaches and up the creek.

[erose]

Argh! Reminds me of the BS at Big Brook many years ago. And beach access is being denied all over the country by adjacent landowners. Guess it's a lot easier to be the 1% if you never have to encounter the other 99.

[FossilDAWG]

You can park at a public fishing access point right next to the creek. From there you can walk to the beaches and up the creek.

Thanks Dave.

I guess I'm just obtuse, though, as I'm still not completely clear on the situation. Were you there very recently? It sounds as if the signs are a very new thing, perhaps since you were last there.

I am getting the impression that you can park at the fishing access point and walk along some parts of the creek but not others. Once you get to the mouth of the creek the beaches on both sides (or is it only one side) are posted so that even though much of the beach/cliff area is not posted there is no way to get there without crossing the posted land? Is that right? Is it currently possible to access the Lake Erie shore in the area without a boat?

It sounds as if Xonenine has the most current info, and he says he "ended his trip rather promptly". That sounds to me to indicate that there is no foot access to the shore. Is that correct? I am curious because I will be traveling to Ontario later this summer and had thought to stop in at 18 mile creek on the way.

[jgcox]

Their lake??? Wonder what Ohio, Penn, Michigan and Canada think about that? Evidently Hamburg does not want the money we fossil tourist spend there --We joined the Hamburg natural history society(5 year membership) and we come up early and stay later than out weekend field trip. A week at a local motel, eating at local restaurants, and other assorted spending and the high NY taxes.

You said:

"I'll play the devils advocate and include the fact that local lakefront owners would have under age juveniles drinking on the beach, people building bonfires that sent the smoke to the area houses. Garbage and broken bottles litter an otherwise nice environment. There were occasional fossil collectors who would dig into the cliff face. That was always a no-no. Who screwed this up? You tell me, was it the outside visitors or the snobbish residents?"

I would say they both did but outside visitors are only there occasionally and are not familiar with the area. The fishermen, local teens and others that trashed the area should have been held accountable. The coast guard will work with local LEOs to patrol shore lines and if damage is done to property the persons doing it or if teens are involved their parents should be responsible for clean up or repairs.

[Shamalama]

Thanks Dave.

I guess I'm just obtuse, though, as I'm still not completely clear on the situation. Were you there very recently? It sounds as if the signs are a very new thing, perhaps since you were last there.

I am getting the impression that you can park at the fishing access point and walk along some parts of the creek but not others. Once you get to the mouth of the creek the beaches on both sides (or is it only one side) are posted so that even though much of the beach/cliff area is not posted there is no way to get there without crossing the posted land? Is that right? Is it currently possible to access the Lake Erie shore in the area without a boat?

It sounds as if Xonenine has the most current info, and he says he "ended his trip rather promptly". That sounds to me to indicate that there is no foot access to the shore. Is that correct? I am curious because I will be traveling to Ontario later this summer and had thought to stop in at 18 mile creek on the way.

I'd heard that the north bank of 18 MC entrance to the beaches was having some irate land owner issues but I did not see any specific signs when I was there two weeks ago. I recall that there is one landowner who has a road carved down to the beach on the north side. It could be here where the signs are. The state, county, municipality would not have access to the creek (parking lot) if it were not publicly accessible.

[xonenine]

I will try to check the access on the other side this weekend, currently it is the South beach and access to the cliffs where the posted zone starts. Dave must have gotten lucky to be there before these new postings

Edited June 5, 2013 by xonenine

[hrguy54]

Any news on this situation? I am heading up there and to Penn Dixie next weekend 6/22 for the first time.

Also...............James and others....any tips or suggestions of any sort?

[jgcox]

Talked to Jerry at Penn-Dixie last weekend and he said apparently a developer bought property at 18 mile creek and has posted all along the creek (up to the center of the creek) and law enforcement is giving out trespassing tickets. He suggested not visiting that area till this issue is resolved.

[hitekmastr]

Just received the plans for our yearly fossil trip to Hamburg which includes a trip to 18 mile creek. The plans have been changed because the police are enforcing "no trespassing" zones along the access of the creek bank. How is this even possible along a navigatiable waterway?? What about access to Lake Erie shoreline? Anyone from that area have any info??

I know from fishing in New York (Salmon River) that they have a weird law that says if someone owns both shores of a waterway, they can prevent people from passing even if you stay in the center of the waterway. I was told many years ago that this is a weird law passed by a state legislator many years ago who just before retirement bought access on both sides of the famed Salmon River and then got a law passed that allowed him to block access or charge a fee for people because he owned both shorelines. Whether this is the law being enforced, or not, I don't know.

So is there a way to gain access from the Lake Erie shoreline? Seems like that would be a possibility. I'm sure it's a long hike however it plays out. We were planning to go there the 4th of July weekend, may have to shift our plans...