How Addicted Are We?

[Shellseeker]

Shell seeker, want to trade a Grizzly for your gator.?

Northstar,

I do not think so... It may be the comfort level. I am far more comfortable with Gators than Grizzlies. and a 7-8 foot gator is 175 pounds max. That is difficult to deal with, especially in water but: A momma grizzly is 300-400 pounds and (I hear) may be easily irritated and highly aggressive!!! You can keep those Grizzlies up in your neck of the woods.

[Wrangellian]

I don't know what I am risking by posting this other than your image of me (already shaky with the family but at least they tolerate me), but this is what my 'rec room' currently looks like:

Just to the right of the above are more fossils - these stackable fruit boxes are handy..

In my defense, it's always in transition (upheaval)... things will be better when I either a) get the proper trim saw to make some of the larger pieces smaller and get another shallow-drawer cabinet, or get rid of some fossils! (I prefer 'a')

I won't even show you the 'rock shed' just outside the door.....

[Ridgehiker]

Wrangellian. I hope you realize we are all addicts and want to see photos of inside of every drawer. Better still, we could have a collecting trip to your fossil room.

[Missourian]

I don't know what I am risking by posting this other than your image of me (already shaky with the family but at least they tolerate me), but this is what my 'rec room' currently looks like:

FossilsFossilsFossils1.jpg

Just to the right of the above are more fossils - these stackable fruit boxes are handy..

FossilsFossilsFossils2.jpg

Photos of my fossil storage areas would have far fewer parallel lines....

[AgrilusHunter]

I don't know what I am risking by posting this other than your image of me (already shaky with the family but at least they tolerate me), but this is what my 'rec room' currently looks like:

FossilsFossilsFossils1.jpg

Ha! Fossil bone, fossil bone, fossil bone, trombone, fossil bone ....

[Auspex]

Maybe he can ID this proximal part of a 'bone...

[FossilDudeCO]

Can I steal one of those drawer cabinets if I promise to leave the fossils?

[Wrangellian]

I need the drawers as much as I need the fossils!

I did have a bass fiddle in the middle there but I figured I'd move it for the pic - didn't think the trombone would be pointed out!

[Ordovician_Odyssey]

I'd say I'm quite the addict!

I give up 90%+ of my free time to work on my paleontology research or collections.. and take out 5% of that free time where I'm helping out the Geological Survey of Canada with paleostuffs... Being a minor I don't have much time done so far, but a lot of it has been put in to collecting all around Eastern Ontario, Quebec and New York state.

Plus I'm planning on going into paleontology with a graduate degree, therefore making a living out of it too

..I like fossils.. A lot

[Wrangellian]

I guess anyone who spends 100% of their free time with fossils and is going in for a degree on top of that, is more addicted than I am... I've got other distractions like music too..

[JimB88]

you guys are weird......I mean who collects rocks?!?

[fossilcrazy]

I've got the same idea, Sully, volunteering in the Collections department at PRI.

Hey, if a fossil is buried in a collection without proper cataloging and curation, it's as much of a discovery to bring it to modern standards as bringing in a new specimen from the field, right? And it's a lot more convenient than traveling around the world to get them!

Doesn't it seem like a crime if a fossil was taken with the proper prominence information and then somehow got buried in a collection without proper cataloging and curation?

That doesn't speak well of an institutions' stewardship of donations. Personally, I find it disheartening to ask for a certificate of donation and get nothing; or ask for an index number

for my donation and get no reply. Choose where to give your scientific fossil specimens carefully.

[Wrangellian]

That does seem suspect...

I have donated so far only one thing, to the RBCM, and they gave me a tax receipt (useless if you're under a certain income level, but no matter), and they asked me if I would like my name attached to it and I said "yes" (this was all in a form I had to fill out - it seemed like an inordinate amount of paperwork involved in making that one measly donation, btw! I wonder what the guy who donated 30- 40 000 fossils had to do!). I have not been down to tour their collection yet and see where my donation ended up but I am assuming they have all that data with it...

I don't want to discourage anyone from making donations to museums but personally I'd rather show my collection to experts, and when they show interest in something and decide to take it and do a paper on it, then I will donate it. The rest of my collection stays with me until I am old and grey or I have to get rid of it for some reason, then maybe I will let the museum take what they want and I'll sell the rest.

[MarleysGh0st]

Doesn't it seem like a crime if a fossil was taken with the proper prominence information and then somehow got buried in a collection without proper cataloging and curation?

That doesn't speak well of an institutions' stewardship of donations. Personally, I find it disheartening to ask for a certificate of donation and get nothing; or ask for an index number

for my donation and get no reply. Choose where to give your scientific fossil specimens carefully.

Notice that I mentioned bringing them to modern standards. One of the earliest sources for PRI's collection (previously acquired by Cornell University) was the Jewett Collection. Each lot from that collection still has the label containing all the information that came with the specimens. PRI also still has the original catalog, which, by the standards of the 19th century, is a big, leather-bound ledger book with handwritten entries. That's fine, if you're a researcher who wants to travel to Ithaca and examine these specimens in person.

By the standards of the 21st century, though, that shouldn't be the only way to access that data. Now there are computerized databases, complete with photographs, in some cases with detailed 3-D scans of the specimens. There are sites like the Paleobiology Database, which aggregate data from institutions all the world, so one can instantly get a idea of everywhere that a particular species has been found and in what collections those specimens now reside. Only a tiny fraction of the one to two million specimens the PRI collection, and perhaps one to two billion specimens in institutions worldwide, have been databased in this way. It's a job that won't be completed in our lifetimes.

Besides computerizing the data, there are other details in the curation of specimens which have changed over time. It used to be acceptable to seal small specimens in glass vials with a cork; now we want to remove those corks and replace them with wads of synthetic cotton. Specimens with old catalog numbers from their previous collections need new PRI catalog numbers, which should be written with archival-quality pens on each specimen, or, for the smaller specimens, on a slip of archival paper placed with the specimen inside archival-quality plastic bags or the above-mentioned glass vials. And so forth.

If you donate one or two quality specimens, it's relatively easy to take care of those details at the time the specimens are received. Many of our specimens, though, have come from the collections of other institutions that no longer wanted them. It's vital to save these collections, but when thousands of lots arrive at once, we don't have the resources to do all of this associated work, unless some grant money arrives with the collection, for that specific purpose.

There's another thread that's active now, which asks "Are We Running Out of Quality Fossils?" Fossils, unlike fossil fuels, aren't used up when they're purchased. Theoretically, they can be preserved for science in perpetuity. Dedicating the resources to preserve them is an ongoing commitment.

As I see it, with money being tight to non-existent, volunteer labor is the largest resource available.

[Rob Russell]

At this moment I have four thorns festering in my right hand. That's how obsessed I am.

[Auspex]

Thesaurus.com sez:

One or more applies to every fossiler I know.

[Ridgehiker]

Few fossils are studied for the sake of it and thus few donated fossils are of value. A donated collection of 10 specimens or 10,000 usually just sit in a dark box forever.

I can't recall any research in which we used donated fossils for anything. Research work in the last 40 years or so is usually focused on some aspect of biostratigraphy, Paleoeco reconstruction, etc. High graded collected specimens without very specific site information have little value. Even keen collectors rarely give specific info on the matrix, meters within a member of a formation, etc.

Scientific collections don 't need. 'Nice specimens,'. You will get a smile, pat on the head and certificate. The curator will know no more than you and any researchers equally as little unless they perchance are one of 3 or 4 people in the world who study that specific fauna from that specific age.

Lighter note...Bob Russel above... Re thorns. I learned not to pull out cactus needles with my teeth as a cactus in the finger may hurt but not as much as one stuck in the tongue. I always carry tweezers.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Ridgehiker

[Auspex]

Few fossils are studied for the sake of it and thus few donated fossils are of value. A donated collection of 10 specimens or 10,000 usually just sit in a dark box forever...

Researchers engaged in academic publication, even if they share a hobbyist's fascination privately, have a different purpose to their professional efforts. I, as an amateur, am glad to be free from that onus, and can enjoy studying individual fossils for their own sake.

An institution's costs of storing (even without active curation) donated material are high enough to make many museums pretty selective as to what they will accept for perpetual preservation; the world is in no danger of running out of quality fossils, but it is running out of the resources to store them. Even though I have an emotional investment in anything I donate, I have to remember that a gift, once given, is the recipient's to do with as they please.

[fossilcrazy]

Notice that I mentioned bringing them to modern standards. One of the earliest sources for PRI's collection (previously acquired by Cornell University) was the Jewett Collection. Each lot from that collection still has the label containing all the information that came with the specimens. PRI also still has the original catalog, which, by the standards of the 19th century, is a big, leather-bound ledger book with handwritten entries. That's fine, if you're a researcher who wants to travel to Ithaca and examine these specimens in person.

By the standards of the 21st century, though, that shouldn't be the only way to access that data. Now there are computerized databases, complete with photographs, in some cases with detailed 3-D scans of the specimens. There are sites like the Paleobiology Database, which aggregate data from institutions all the world, so one can instantly get a idea of everywhere that a particular species has been found and in what collections those specimens now reside. Only a tiny fraction of the one to two million specimens the PRI collection, and perhaps one to two billion specimens in institutions worldwide, have been databased in this way. It's a job that won't be completed in our lifetimes.

Besides computerizing the data, there are other details in the curation of specimens which have changed over time. It used to be acceptable to seal small specimens in glass vials with a cork; now we want to remove those corks and replace them with wads of synthetic cotton. Specimens with old catalog numbers from their previous collections need new PRI catalog numbers, which should be written with archival-quality pens on each specimen, or, for the smaller specimens, on a slip of archival paper placed with the specimen inside archival-quality plastic bags or the above-mentioned glass vials. And so forth.

If you donate one or two quality specimens, it's relatively easy to take care of those details at the time the specimens are received. Many of our specimens, though, have come from the collections of other institutions that no longer wanted them. It's vital to save these collections, but when thousands of lots arrive at once, we don't have the resources to do all of this associated work, unless some grant money arrives with the collection, for that specific purpose.

There's another thread that's active now, which asks "Are We Running Out of Quality Fossils?" Fossils, unlike fossil fuels, aren't used up when they're purchased. Theoretically, they can be preserved for science in perpetuity. Dedicating the resources to preserve them is an ongoing commitment.

As I see it, with money being tight to non-existent, volunteer labor is the largest resource available.

MarleysGh0st, I like your attitude toward what you are doing. I can tell you are a definite asset to PRI. Hope Warren A. realizes that. Anything in my previous post is not directed at you. I knew the institution back when Dave G. and Wendy T. were doing much of the curating. I also knew Paul K. and Bob R. as the new museum collection was taking off. I knew and liked all those people a lot. I was disheartened with how things were handled to that point regarding donation specimens. I remember making very specific stratigraphic information referencing layers and giving exact GPS and verbal locations. I can bet my donations cannot be located, nor the information I supplied. These days I have specimens any museum would welcome. I don't know where I will send them, I only know where I won't send them.

Edited August 25, 2013 by fossilcrazy

[Wrangellian]

An institution's costs of storing (even without active curation) donated material are high enough to make many museums pretty selective as to what they will accept for perpetual preservation; the world is in no danger of running out of quality fossils, but it is running out of the resources to store them.

Then good thing there's all of us fossil nuts to hold onto them until they are needed!

And because we're interested in them we learn to recognize when we've got something rare/important.

Regarding the 'fewer fossils' thread, certainly fossils are not 'used up' and aren't gone for good once they're in a private collection, as long as that private collection is properly curated and they aren't being used for jewelry or sculpture etc! I do see fewer sites available to collect and I'm not sure if that's primarily because there are fewer sites left undiscovered or because there are still lots of them out there but no one's looking for them.

A fellow collector here on the Island mentioned to me more than once that the RBCM was adding a wing that will be completed by about 2016 and will need fossils (etc) to fill it. I didnt think they had enough room to add a building in downtown Victoria but apparently that's happening - there at least.

[vertman]

That does seem suspect...

I have donated so far only one thing, to the RBCM, and they gave me a tax receipt (useless if you're under a certain income level, but no matter), and they asked me if I would like my name attached to it and I said "yes" (this was all in a form I had to fill out - it seemed like an inordinate amount of paperwork involved in making that one measly donation, btw! I wonder what the guy who donated 30- 40 000 fossils had to do!). I have not been down to tour their collection yet and see where my donation ended up but I am assuming they have all that data with it...

I don't want to discourage anyone from making donations to museums but personally I'd rather show my collection to experts, and when they show interest in something and decide to take it and do a paper on it, then I will donate it. The rest of my collection stays with me until I am old and grey or I have to get rid of it for some reason, then maybe I will let the museum take what they want and I'll sell the rest.

This is a very interesting thread. I must say I generally agree with Wrangellian on his approach. I do still sometimes donate fossils to museums without knowing of anyone who will be directly working on the specimens. However I don't do this a lot any more. I have been in the collections areas of several museums across the country. Some such as the University of Kansas were in excellent condition as far as labeling etc. Others whom I will not name were not. Even KU had a problem with specimens that had been checked out many years ago and never returned. In fact we found a few KU specimens of the Pennsylvanian shark tooth Edestus at a university here in Texas that was being absorbed by a larger university. It was sheer accident we found the specimens and Shawn Hamm made sure they made it back to KU.

Now if I am going to donate material I usually make sure that someone will be working on the material. I donated about one thousand Ptychodus teeth to museums in Texas and Kansas for Shawn's masters thesis. This included 2 partial dentitions one with associated vertebrae. I had no problem at all doing this as I knew the specimens would not simply be shoved in a drawer or box and forgotten.

[posteriori]

I even inspect the rocks the buildings are made of...

[shark57]

Let's see? First thing I do in the morning is check the Fossil Forum. Oh, that's after my wife yells at me to get the teeth and bones off the dining room table. Then I email/call my friends to see who is going collecting when and where. Then before I go to my part-time job (don't have time for a full-time job, too busy fossil hunting), I spend whatever time I have in the morning cleaning/prepping the hundreds of bones I have collected. When I get home, it's either time to go hunting or time to keep working on bones (I have several projects in process right now). Squeeze in some time to eat, then back to prepping, usually until midnight or 1 a.m. If I get tired of working on fossils, I just look at some of my favorites or get back on the Forum. Any day off is spent out at the cliffs. Worst thing is, I have also made an addict out of my son, and my daughter is interested too.

[lmacfadden]

I have to say I am TOTALLY obsessed with fossils. I just started seriously digging at Hungry Hollow (Ontario Canada) for fossils this spring and so far have 10 assorted blastoids, over a dozen crinoid plates, several trilobite pigydiums and other assorted trilo parts, as well as 7 complete trilos of various sizes, over 200 microcyclus, several dozen ammonites, tornoceras and platyceras. I also have to mention my brachiopods, which I LOVE and never get tired of finding, my crinoid pieces, stems and partial crowns and calyxes - still searching for complete ones!

When it rains I'm so excited to get back out there to see what the rain has uncovered.

I have made some new fossil friends on this forum as well as on location and while I do enjoy digging with friends, the peacefulness I experience while I dig on my own is priceless.

We don't have any poisonous critters in these parts so even though the occasional snake or large spider will startle me and rattle my nerves a little, I never go home empty handed and it never ceases to amaze me that there are still some spectacular fossils to be found at Hungry Hollow!

[busyeagle]

Let's see? First thing I do in the morning is check the Fossil Forum. Oh, that's after my wife yells at me to get the teeth and bones off the dining room table. Then I email/call my friends to see who is going collecting when and where. Then before I go to my part-time job (don't have time for a full-time job, too busy fossil hunting), I spend whatever time I have in the morning cleaning/prepping the hundreds of bones I have collected. When I get home, it's either time to go hunting or time to keep working on bones (I have several projects in process right now). Squeeze in some time to eat, then back to prepping, usually until midnight or 1 a.m. If I get tired of working on fossils, I just look at some of my favorites or get back on the Forum. Any day off is spent out at the cliffs. Worst thing is, I have also made an addict out of my son, and my daughter is interested too.

All too true, I'm afraid.