Ludwigia Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) I recently posted an ID question about this find: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/40957-middle-jurassic-vertebra-any-suggestions/ It was a labor of love to completely remove it from the hard matrix, but I managed, albeit with the help of 2 small tubes of superglue. It now seems quite obvious that I've got a dorsal vertebra of one of the Plesiosauria here, but the question is, which one? I'd at least like to narrow the conjecture down to the genus level if possible, but at this point I don't even know if it belongs to the superfamily of the Pliosauroidea or that of the Plesiosauroidea, which both coexisted at the time in question, the upper Aalenian European Bradfordensis zone. Here it is out of a good number of perspectives. I hope someone is able to give me some advice on this. Edited September 29, 2013 by Ludwigia Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down under fossil hunter Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Great work on the prep! I hope you get a positive id. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moahunt1 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Off topic but I have never really thought about what some of my specimens would look like out of their matrix that's amazing you got that out like that. Nice vert and preparation Logan Hunted for fossils in:UK - Lyme Regis, Charmouth, The Thames and Hampshire (two trips) Egypt - Desert somewhere near Giza - Nummalites and petrified wood Australia - Lightening Ridge opal fields - opalised things!!!!USA - Florida- Gainesville creeks and Diving in the Santa Fe river Meg teeth and 10 000 year old mammalsNew Zealand- Around 30 sites visited and collected from. Including Chatham Islands. and now Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Wow, that is a gorgeous piece of fossil bone. Well done on the prep and preservation. -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossisle Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Beautiful specimen!! Cephalopods rule!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgehiker Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Off topic but I have never really thought about what some of my specimens would look like out of their matrix that's amazing you got that out like that. Nice vert and preparation Logan I echo your sentiment. What a super prep job. Quite the talent turning an interesting find into a specimen that now has scientific value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thanks to everyone for the laurels on my preparation . Like I already indicated, a lot of blood, sweat and tears and a good portion of luck and courage to try the seemingly impossible went into it. I still do hope that someone can help me with the identification, though. My expert friend is off at a conference now until mid October... Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Dr. Prepper strikes again.... Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thanks Scott! Any idea what it might be, or at least any literature that may help me? Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regg Cato Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 congrats on the prep job, just a note that you don't need to italicize names of higher taxonomic units unfortunately i'm not really in a position to give you a good identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 On 9/28/2013 at 2:41 PM, Ludwigia said: Thanks Scott! Any idea what it might be, or at least any literature that may help me? I'm a fish out of water on plesiosaurs but this paper sounds like a good place to start and probably has great references to boot! Buchy, M.C. (2004) Plesiosaurs (Reptilia-Sauropterygia) from the Braunjura ß (Middle Jurassic; late Aalenian) of southern Germany. Carolinea 62:51-62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Roger.... Very nice work, well done...I hope theres more as you continue digging.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Well done Roger i cant help with the species im afraid but Plesiosaurs vert it is . Ive alot of similar vertebrae in concretions what tools did you use. Regards, Darren. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 congrats on the prep job, just a note that you don't need to italicize names of higher taxonomic units unfortunately i'm not really in a position to give you a good identification. Thanks for the advice. I've now corrected the above. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 I'm a fish out of water on plesiosaurs but this paper sounds like a good place to start and probably has great references to boot! Buchy, M.C. (2004) Plesiosaurs (Reptilia-Sauropterygia) from the Braunjura ß (Middle Jurassic; late Aalenian) of southern Germany. Carolinea 62:51-62 Perfect! Thanks very much for the reference! Now I just need to get my hands on it somehow... Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Roger.... Very nice work, well done...I hope theres more as you continue digging.... ...and wouldn't that be nice! Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Well done Roger i cant help with the species im afraid but Plesiosaurs vert it is . Ive alot of similar vertebrae in concretions what tools did you use. Regards, Darren. Have you heard of the small German company HW (Hardy Winkler)? I use the air scribes HW60 and HW70. The first ist quite powerful and I use it for removing the outer layers. Then once the vibrations get too dangerous I switch to the finer HW70 with a pointy tip and work like a dentist removing very small portions at a time. You can work extremely precisely with that instrument. I didn't use the air abrader since on the one hand the matrix was too hard and on the other hand the bone too soft. That's also why I had to keep soaking it with small doses of superglue. I don't have any of that other stuff that you use to stabilize bone material (what do you call it again?), but it worked well anyway. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Mike Everhart, who runs the Oceans of Kansas website was nice enough to send me a pdf copy free of charge of the article that Scott mentioned above. This has helped me to narrow things down a bit. Plesiosaurs are apparently extremely rare in this stage of the upper Aalenian, which we call the Dogger, or Braunjura beta in Germany. The finds described in the article, including a good number of cervical vertebrae from the family of the Elasmosauridae, come from an old site north of here, Wasseralfingen, an old iron mine which was closed down decades ago, but they come from exactly the same layer as at my site, so I think a correlation would make sense. Although my find is obviously, as Paul mentioned in the first thread, a dorsal vertebra, I can now continue my research in this direction. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Excellent bit of deduction there Roger your journey can now continue good luck. Regards, Darren. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Thanks Darren. I'll keep you posted if I learn any more. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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