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Pennsylvanian Flora From Oklahoma


BobWill

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Found this in Haskell County Oklahoma. It's Middle Pennsylvanian, Des Moinesian Series, Savanna Formation.

Size: 35mm

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This blurry view shows how the fossil curves down on both sides.

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Here are some other common fossils from this site that I was able to identify.

post-4419-0-79248400-1407709301_thumb.jpg

post-4419-0-45523200-1407709270_thumb.jpg

Edited by BobWill
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Calamites rhizome, me thinks.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Thanks and thanks for the ID Auspex. That was my first guess but I couldn't find pictures of any with such a short inter-nodal length compared to the width. I'm sure there's a lot of variation to account for that though.

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Intriguing fossil. Could be Calamites, for there are species with very short internodes, but it is not really like any I have seen. On the other hand, can't come up with any alternatives... I'll go through the plates of Kidston and Jongmans (1915-1917) when I have time to see if there is a match. On the photo, the ribs seem to be slightly off-parallel, which leads me to wonder: do you have any indications there could be remnants of the leaf-whorls on the surface?

Searching for green in the dark grey.

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I thought the ribs seemed odd but these are the first plant fossils I've collected so I have little for making comparisons. I see nothing that looks like part of a leaf whorl on this piece but I found some at this site. They are barely visible however and I'm having trouble taking usable photos.

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Interesting finds, Bob!

Thanks for posting them.

Regards,

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

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I showed this to a paleo-botanist at the Dallas Paleo Society meeting last night. It was outside her specialty but her suggestion was that it had a "ferny" look to it. I've given that some thought and now I wonder if she meant it could be over-lapping fern leaves. That wouldn't explain the way it curves downward at the edges so maybe she was talking about material at the base of ancient ferns. As I said before I have no experience with fossil plants or even present-day ferns for that matter so it's still a mystery to me.

Edited by BobWill
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LINK1 (scroll down to Fig. 11)

LINK2

  • I found this Informative 1

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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LINK1 (scroll down to Fig. 11)

As far as you can tell from a photograph, I would argue that Figure 11 is not Calamites rhizome. The large, round-oval structures forming the node (main feature) are too large compared to the main stem and too closely spaced to be root scars. More likely, the feature is a verticil (whorl) of branch scars, making the specimen figured as Figure 11 some form of Calamites subgenus Calamitina, such as Calamites goeppertii (1, 2, 3), Calamites sachsei, Calamites verticillatus, etc., which all represent sub-aerial parts of the plant. Note that, depending on preservation, the ribs of the nodes can appear more or less "weathered-out", making the general appearance quite variable. The specimen presented for identification does not show a characteristic node, making it very difficult to link this specimen to any of the species above.

Edited by paleoflor
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Searching for green in the dark grey.

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Could it be decorticated, and might this account for the textural differences?

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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As far as you can tell from a photograph, I would argue that Figure 11 is not Calamites rhizome. The large, round-oval structures forming the node (main feature) are too large compared to the main stem and too closely spaced to be root scars. More likely, the feature is a verticil (whorl) of branch scars, making the specimen figured as Figure 11 some form of Calamites subgenus Calamitina, such as Calamites goeppertii (1, 2, 3), Calamites sachsei, Calamites verticillatus, etc., which all represent sub-aerial parts of the plant. Note that, depending on preservation, the ribs of the nodes can appear more or less "weathered-out", making the general appearance quite variable. The specimen presented for identification does not show a characteristic node, making it very difficult to link this specimen to any of the species above.

Hey Bob, cool find!

Tim, was wondering if this might be one of the calamite cones...Macrostachya?...what do you think?

Here's one that I have that is similar in preservation.

post-1240-0-32506600-1408328306_thumb.jpg

Regards, Chris

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Wow Chris! I think that's it. That's probably what was pictured in the link Auspex found if Paleoflor was right about it being misidentified. So, now you only have to explain to a fauna guy what's meant by cone in this context. A seedpod like a pinecone or something else?

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Interesting discussion. Funnily enough I was thinking cone the whole way down the scroll, but since I'm no expert in this field I was thinking I'll just keep my mouth shut...oops...now I've gone out on a limb...

 

Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger

http://www.steinkern.de/

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(...) this might be one of the calamite cones...Macrostachya?...what do you think?

Here's one that I have that is similar in preservation.(...)

@ Plantguy: Never seen a three-dimensionally preserved cone like that! Beautiful. And yes, it does look very similar to the specimen considered here. I think you solved the mystery here, Chris. Do you have any additional information on the preservation, identification, etc.? The only calamite cones of Macrostachya I have seen before are two-dimensional, like these. Again, kudos with this identification.

@ Bobwill: "cone" refers to "spore cone", or strobilus. Some more information on calamite cones can be found here.

  • I found this Informative 2

Searching for green in the dark grey.

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@ Plantguy: Never seen a three-dimensionally preserved cone like that! Beautiful. And yes, it does look very similar to the specimen considered here. I think you solved the mystery here, Chris. Do you have any additional information on the preservation, identification, etc.? The only calamite cones of Macrostachya I have seen before are two-dimensional, like these. Again, kudos with this identification.

@ Bobwill: "cone" refers to "spore cone", or strobilus. Some more information on calamite cones can be found here.

Hey Tim, yep this is a neat specimen. It came from a Paleontology instructor's collection I acquired upon his passing. Sadly that specimen's provenance was all gone/lost when it was given to me--just had the Macrostachya label. Some of the other things from that collection are special in their own right even though the reservation isnt as stunning. Just inheriting it from a former collector/educator adds to its specialness.

Bob, glad Tim explained the term. Finding things that aren't completely flattened are pretty neat! Nice! Regards, Chris

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Thanks Tim and Chris. It's very tempting to see if this thing continues around to the other side. It disappears beneath the matrix on both edges but it's pretty crumbly. Chris, is yours showing anything on the back?

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  • 2 weeks later...

post-9994-0-95577100-1409573450_thumb.jpg

The specimen is a Macrostachya thompsonii, a large cone of an unknown sphenopsid. The only possible doubt is the species name, thompsonii and is the most common species in North America and the only known found at Mazon Creek. The only way to be certain is to examine the spores. I would assume this locality is from a area which was mined for the Henryetta Coal, if so it has fossil flora is equivalent to Mazon Creek, See https://repository.si.edu/handle/10088/21841 Attached is a Mazon Creek example housed at The Field Museum the scale bar is 2 cm.

Hope this helps,

Jack

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  • 1 month later...

attachicon.gifMacroPP27962.jpg

The specimen is a Macrostachya thompsonii, a large cone of an unknown sphenopsid. The only possible doubt is the species name, thompsonii and is the most common species in North America and the only known found at Mazon Creek. The only way to be certain is to examine the spores. I would assume this locality is from a area which was mined for the Henryetta Coal, if so it has fossil flora is equivalent to Mazon Creek, See https://repository.si.edu/handle/10088/21841 Attached is a Mazon Creek example housed at The Field Museum the scale bar is 2 cm.

Hope this helps,

Jack

Jack, looks like you all have been very busy. What a doc and full of wonderful specimens and color photos! Thanks for providing the link. Regards, Chris

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Thanks Tim and Chris. It's very tempting to see if this thing continues around to the other side. It disappears beneath the matrix on both edges but it's pretty crumbly. Chris, is yours showing anything on the back?

Hi Bob, missed this post earlier. Yep I understand the temptation. My specimen is currently under an Plio Pleistocene invertebrate layer in the garage. Once I ID and move and organize that stuff I'll be able to get to the Paleozoic material beneath and I'll snap a shot of the back...has similar but less spectacular features as I recall.

I'm not complaining just have run into a wealth of material and brought it home...we are very very fortunate down here...you almost dig a hole and you find something...may not be spectacular but a crumb of something....

Regards, Chris

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Chris, no need to dig it out. Your description if fine. I think I'll leave mine as is (intact so far).

Thanks and thanks to Jack too

BobW

Edited by BobWill
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attachicon.gifMacroPP27962.jpg

I would assume this locality is from a area which was mined for the Henryetta Coal,

Hope this helps,

Jack

Sorry Jack, I just noticed this part of your post. If you mean my fossil, It's from a road cut in Haskell County. I don't know if coal has been mined there. I saw a thin band of coal but mostly alternating layers of sandstone and shale.

Edited by BobWill
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