ckmerlin Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I agree with Al-Dente , Auspex and Squali , sedge tubers , possibly similar to Cyprus esculentus tubers for e.g Edited September 15, 2014 by ckmerlin "A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Those are seriously cool. I have similar ones that I was told are horsetail rhizomes but I'll defer to the sedge bunch - they are pretty confident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Would this of been found in one of my close relatives homes, a Neotoma sp. midden? (pack rat house). The Pleistocene plant material associated with these middens doesn't fit my current thought of sedge. Yucca and prickly pear are commonly found plants with tubers. This is a tough one Rich. Thanks to you I've had to read a couple of dozen papers and searches regarding the Paleontology, Geology, Ecology, Botany and archaeology of The Plains of San Agustin. Though I'm not any more sure of my answer. At one point I thought I was a couple of sentences away from reading they were from a paleo-indian food cache. nope. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Here are the ones I have that reminded me of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I do see the similarities. At this point I'm trying to match the record To the material and I'm not having much luck. Poor science. It looks like the large photo has evidence of borings. Cool stuff. Most if not all of the pleistocene flora of that area seems to be recorded only in caves, cores, or middens. There are documented algal mats Preserved as fossils. Please remember my answers are web driven and I am not to be held responsible for the errors and omissions Of my synaptic capability. Ok back to the popcorn. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanNREMTP Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think the small borings is actually where roots were attached. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 On the original post possibly, on Carl's post I am thinking not. Please see disclaime above. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Here are the ones I have that reminded me of yours. Hey Carl, very nice! I now remember seeing similar examples like yours before and I like the Equisetum family ID possibility. I had to go dig up part of mine in a large pot in the back yard today(not sure what species it actually is) and look at the rhizomes--it does creep horizontally a good deal once it gets going so I'm trying to contain it for now ..I was going to cut off the roots to look closer at the structures but that aint happening especially when Rich is about to divulge the answer to this mystery..My plant is still fairly young and doesnt have any tubers developed that I can readily see yet but the parallel ridges on the stems seem consistent with the elongated pieces Rich has and they are hollow like Rich's and now that I think about it, I remember Equisetum's being the ultimate silica hogs...somehow they've figured out how to store silica in their internal structure. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I wish I could divulge the final solution - but this is where I am with it as of now: Some of them are quite similar, if not identical to a species of Scirpus described from the Pliocene of New Mexico in an area about 150 miles from where my examples posted above were found. I'm leaning towards the other ones - the largest ones - being an undescribed species of Scirpus close to S. maritimus. I believe there is also some material from Typha in the lot, as well as several other species. Mine were all collected many years ago, but Gary Morgan (New Mexico Museum of Natural History) and I are going to relocate the site and try to collect more material, perhaps even jacketing some to get them in life position. Chris, I'll send you a couple of pdfs tomorrow. The Equisetum are clearly similar, but different in details, such as having rounded culms. Thanks for those pictures, Carl! Edited September 16, 2014 by RichW9090 1 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 This has developed into a very informative and interesting thread. Rich, I wish you and your colleague luck in establishing whether or not you have a new species there. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Well you got me Rich. I was thinking it was a quiz, and I guess It was. At the least you have a solid Genus ID on the Scirpus . It will be very interesting to locate the elevation of the site. Looking forward to the outcome of your search and thanks for the lesson. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Squali, the site is at about 6,800 feet elevation. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I wish I could divulge the final solution - but this is where I am with it as of now: Some of them are quite similar, if not identical to a species of Scirpus described from the Pliocene of New Mexico in an area about 150 miles from where my examples posted above were found. I'm leaning towards the other ones - the largest ones - being an undescribed species of Scirpus close to S. maritimus. I believe there is also some material from Typha in the lot, as well as several other species. Mine were all collected many years ago, but Gary Morgan (New Mexico Museum of Natural History) and I are going to relocate the site and try to collect more material, perhaps even jacketing some to get them in life position. Chris, I'll send you a couple of pdfs tomorrow. The Equisetum are clearly similar, but different in details, such as having rounded culms. Thanks for those pictures, Carl! Hi Rich, thanks for the docs! How you all are able to locate the site again and secure some more. Preservation is stunning... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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