T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hi all, I'm a rock guy...maybe makes me a fossil guy? I've made some nice petrified wood & Petoskey stone cabochons. So here I am with a "first" post / question. About 40 years ago my brother found several white stones each about 1 inch in diameter. All of them had at least one concave depressions in them. One stone had 3 depressions in it, my brother gave me that one. They were found in Southeastern Michigan, at the end of our street. On what was farmland. For all these years we thought that they were dinosaur gastroliths, because that's what my Dad guessed and he was really smart. Last weekend my brother took his stones to a local rock & mineral show and asked a paleontologist about the stones. He was sure they weren't gastroliths. He thought that they were Native American, possibly game stones and that they were very unusual. He suggested we have a University look at them. We may do that, but first....Here's a picture of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Gastroliths will have a polished, "waxy" appearance, and, more importantly, will come from areas known to be rich in dinosaur remains. I cannot tell what these are, but they are not gastroliths, and they are not otherwise of organic origin. 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hello, let me start off by saying welcome! Glad to hear about your interest in fossils and geology! Unfortunately, I don't believe what you have is a dinosaur gastrolith. It does look like one! However, no dinosaurs are known from Michigan (at least to my knowledge). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 They feel polished, but not waxy. If that makes sense. I could make something similar with lapidary equipment or the right grit & my soon to be callused thumb ; ) Just wanted to get some expert input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Stomach Stones? - Questions & Answers - The Fossil Forum I hope this link to a previous discussion will be helpful to you. There I posted a photo example of a gastrolith, as well as a general description. Your piece is certainly interesting, but does not exhibit the diagnostic elements associated with a gastrolith. 1 Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I believe they are ceramic polishing stones used in metal manufacturing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks for all the responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I believe they are ceramic polishing stones used in metal manufacturing. I know about the lapidary uses of ceramics. these are bigger. Do you have a picture of the stones used in metal manufacturing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I hope I'm not taking this too far away from fossils. My Brother just sent a pic of his stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Here is a link for some ideas. http://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/tumbling-media.htm Welcome to the forum, hope you stay around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Here is a link for some ideas. http://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/tumbling-media.htm Welcome to the forum, hope you stay around. Well, ceramic media that started out at 1 or more inches might end up round, might end up with concave depressions...Not in my basement : ) In a properly monitored vibratory tumbler they'd move enough to not get the concave spots. I think...Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Well, ceramic media that started out at 1 or more inches might end up round, might end up with concave depressions...Not in my basement : ) In a properly monitored vibratory tumbler they'd move enough to not get the concave spots. I think...Hmmm... They do come in a variety of shapes. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think Ziggie hit it correctly. That was my thought as well. Ceramic media for metal polishing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I'm a little vague (no surprise) on the physics/mechanics behind a manufactured material designed to cut/polish being purposely equipped with dimples. It seems such a configuration would certainly lessen surface contact between the polishee and the polishing agent. Why? That would seem to contribute to a lack of efficiency. The collection area is another piece of the puzzle. While a farm operation might certainly have a need for cutting/polishing; such an activity would likely be conducted in a "shop" area, not afield. Were the mystery objects found around farm structures or on open land? I guess the next step would be to answer the question; what are they made of? Are they ceramic? I'm thinking the tests used to identify gems/minerals might be helpful. Less sophisticated stabs might include; How weighty are they? What does the surface feel like to the touch? That is, do they feel "ceramic." Of course, if they are man-made, ceramic; they could still be Native American artifacts - not "modern", industrial material. So a review of any known artifacts of that configuration may be useful. Thanks for posting the interesting mystery pieces. Even though they are not fossils, I am sure you can tell by the responses; this is an intellectually curious and clever crowd. Please post any progress you may make on a positive ID. Edited October 15, 2015 by snolly50 1 Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I've seen a number of instances of ceramic balls being mistaken for NA artifacts. Ceramic balls of this size would be used for crushing, not polishing. These balls are used in a large tumbler called a ball mill. When deformed from use, they are discarded. Thrown away, but the used balls are so durable they can last nearly forever. 4 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I've seen a number of instances of ceramic balls being mistaken for NA artifacts. Ceramic balls of this size would be used for crushing, not polishing. These balls are used in a large tumbler called a ball mill. When deformed from use, they are discarded. Thrown away, but the used balls are so durable they can last nearly forever. I appreciated the informative entry above. I don't know if it explains these mystery objects, but it certainly appears to be a very logical place to look toward for a final explanation. Being novel to me I sought more info. I hope this Wikipedia link will benefit others' curiosity as well. Ball mill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks for all the help. They do have a unique feel but it's hard to describe. The dimples are a puzzle, I use smaller stones to cushion material and 'hold' on to abrasive grit in a vibratory rock polisher. They wear all over. No dimples at all. The dimples on these are smoother than the other surfaces on the stone they'd have to be in contact with another stone for a long time without moving to develop in a polisher. The area was farmland but there's a lot of industry around & somebody could have used lot they were found in to dump some trash. My brother only found 6 stones which makes the industrial trash idea less likely.I did a bit of digging today, I think they could be well worn silex flint pebbles.https://www.google.com/search?q=silex+flint+pebbles&safe=active&sa=X&biw=1297&bih=809&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCNjdrI39xMgCFQTZHgodik8HEA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 "Crusher" balls were not for polishing with an abrasive grit, they were fast-tumbled for crushing impact. In tumbling, anomalies in the surface would wear unevenly, producing eccentric shapes that reduced their effectiveness. If these are ceramic, they are not a natural material. Test their hardness. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 This is a reply from a facebook page I joined. seems plausible."I've got it! They are enteroliths. rocks made as secretions in the innards of horses around sand, a piece of hardware or some other thing, which can not be digested. I believe cows and maybe other animals get them too... google "enteroliths" to see similar images. It makes sense that you found them on farm land. Probably bones and other things near where you found them too? I knew those seemed familiar!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 We're really reaching, and need more data. Test their hardness on the MOS scale. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Not sure what you have but I don't see the irregular shapes and sizes of enteroliths or gastroliths. Yours are too uniform and appear to be man made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 We're really reaching, and need more data. Test their hardness on the MOS scale. If one could be spared, how about a thin section, too? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 If the hardness is 9, we won't have to look any further than grinding ball. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-roy Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Hi, I checked the stones hardness & a quartz crystal wouldn't scratch them, so they're above a 7 on mohs scale. According to google magnesium ammonium phosphate crystal (aka. Enteroliths) hardness is 1.5 to 2. I don't want to cut the stone I have and I don't think I have anything between a diamond & quartz in hardness to test further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now