doublerock Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I was in Bradenton Beach FL in Dec and I found a number of Ark shells in piles used for paving that are apparently from the sarasota shell pits-Tamiami formation Pinecrest Beds Pliocene age. A shell very similair to recent mossy ark Arca imbricata has geometrical markings on its hinge-both a diamond shape and a series of v shapes. The shell also has a byssus opening on its anterior. I would appreciate any information or direction to find more information about these shells, their growth and their geometric markings would be really appreciated. doublerock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I was in Bradenton Beach FL in Dec and I found a number of Ark shells in piles used for paving that are apparently from the sarasota shell pits-Tamiami formation Pinecrest Beds Pliocene age. A shell very similair to recent mossy ark Arca imbricata has geometrical markings on its hinge-both a diamond shape and a series of v shapes. The shell also has a byssus opening on its anterior. I would appreciate any information or direction to find more information about these shells, their growth and their geometric markings would be really appreciated. doublerock I like puzzlers. Can we see some clearer pictures and from some different angles? Is the shell broken? Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublerock Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hi Chris No the shell is not broken. I will try to post some additional pics. doublerock Sorry The files are too large and I have not figured out how to reduce them to post. I too thought this was a most curious shell that caught my attention and I am trying to get more info on it. If you give me an email address I did download the pics to my email (tjdpelli@aol.com) I casn send them to you that way. Thanks for your interest doublerock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 To my eye, the markings are carved. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublerock Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Auspex These marking are definately not carved by man. Google a pic of a mossy ark shell and you will be able to see these same markings. I found this shell on a very recent dumping of material to be used to pave a public beach. I pulled it out of the pile. Yes the first thought was these were man made but the mossy ark shows that this distinctive trait continues. Thanks for your concern. (I'm not trying to sell this or deceive anyone--I'm only trying to get info on how this occurs as it is quite amazing. doublerock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 They are apparently just converging ligament scars that create an interesting pattern. LINK 3 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 And here I was about to make a case for Ancient Astronauts "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 They are apparently just converging ligament scars that create an interesting pattern. LINK Yep thanks John, I thought thats what doublerock was showing. I was just digging around in the garage looking for some similar ones..the more recent finds show that...the fossil ones I have have lost that darker banding and you really have to look close for the pattern. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hi Chris No the shell is not broken. I will try to post some additional pics. doublerock Sorry The files are too large and I have not figured out how to reduce them to post. I too thought this was a most curious shell that caught my attention and I am trying to get more info on it. If you give me an email address I did download the pics to my email (tjdpelli@aol.com) I casn send them to you that way. Thanks for your interest doublerock Yep, the file size conversion thing is a pain. Looks like John has already pegged the ID for you. It is a neat pattern! You can still send me the pictures if you want neuhardchristopher@yahoo.com and I'll upload them if you want. I have this free photo editing program called Irfanview that I got from CNET http://www.cnet.com/search/?query=irfanview%C2'> use it to edit and downsize the photos--I"m sure the others have some better tools to do that and I know I see Tim and others provide links regularly to help on uploading/changing file size here on the forum... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublerock Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 They are apparently just converging ligament scars that create an interesting pattern. LINK Thanks for the info very informative. I won't need to post my pictures since they correspond with the ones on your link (some difference in the hinge pattern). Can you or plantguy give me the fossil name for this shell? I have 2 others but they do not have the diamond pattern just a series of v patterns.. Again I really appreciate your taking the time to respond. doublerock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublerock Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Plantguy Thanks for your offer. Since my pics look just like the ones in JohnJ's LINK I won't bother you with them. Thanks Chris for your interest and help. If you have a species name for the fossil shell I would be very interested in learning it. doublerock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Plantguy Thanks for your offer. Since my pics look just like the ones in JohnJ's LINK I won't bother you with them. Thanks Chris for your interest and help. If you have a species name for the fossil shell I would be very interested in learning it. doublerock I think the genus is Arca but am just guessing without photos...It could very well be the species zebra which had stripes on the entire shell--but need an invert person here.... http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=14649&gallery_type=Florida%20Mollusca-Bivalvia. http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+1112+1104 But I'm just guessing as maybe A. imbricata or A. wagneriana fit the bill? There are quite a few Arcas and maybe some of the Anadaras may fit your specimen as well. I have never ID'd to species level in my Sarasota collection...just not smart enough..the diffs are very subtle sometimes..... To net this out if you are looking for genus/species ID, I believe you'll need the pictures showing the shell front and back with scar and hinge points and one of the invert experts should be able to tell you. EDIT: Since MikeR says he'll help below with the ID I still post the photos if you want to send them...... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I would need to see a view of the shell valves, but the common arc shell in the Pinecrest is Arca wagneriana Dall, 1898. http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=5544&gallery_type=Florida%20Mollusca-Bivalvia 3 "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublerock Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I think the genus is Arca but am just guessing without photos...It could very well be the species zebra which had stripes on the entire shell--but need an invert person here.... http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=14649&gallery_type=Florida%20Mollusca-Bivalvia. http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+1112+1104 But I'm just guessing as maybe A. imbricata or A. wagneriana fit the bill? There are quite a few Arcas and maybe some of the Anadaras may fit your specimen as well. I have never ID'd to species level in my Sarasota collection...just not smart enough..the diffs are very subtle sometimes..... To net this out if you are looking for genus/species ID, I believe you'll need the pictures showing the shell front and back with scar and hinge points and one of the invert experts should be able to tell you. EDIT: Since MikeR says he'll help below with the ID I still post the photos if you want to send them...... Regards, Chris Chris I have sent you 3 pics of the shell via e-mail. Thanks again I hope you will be able to post them. I also sent a pic of a moon snail from the same piles that has its operculum intact. That was an exciting find for me. doublerock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublerock Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I would need to see a view of the shell valves, but the common arc shell in the Pinecrest is Arca wagneriana Dall, 1898. http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=5544&gallery_type=Florida%20Mollusca-Bivalvia I sent plantguy 3 pics that I hope he can post so you can see the shell. I appreciate the link and your response. doublerock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Chris I have sent you 3 pics of the shell via e-mail. Thanks again I hope you will be able to post them. I also sent a pic of a moon snail from the same piles that has its operculum intact. That was an exciting find for me. doublerock Got em..let me finish with kitchen chores and I'll put them up in the next 15 mins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Chris I have sent you 3 pics of the shell via e-mail. Thanks again I hope you will be able to post them. I also sent a pic of a moon snail from the same piles that has its operculum intact. That was an exciting find for me. doublerock Ok here they are. Neat operculum! I've never found one still in place. congrats. I am interested to see what Mike says...I believe I have only one of these type of Arcs--- but the original color/striping is gone. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I would need to see a view of the shell valves, but the common arc shell in the Pinecrest is Arca wagneriana Dall, 1898. http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=5544&gallery_type=Florida%20Mollusca-Bivalvia Hey Mike, just posted his photos... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Not Arca wagneriana but Arca aquila Heilprin, 1886 http://neogeneatlas.org/species/arca-aquila/ 1 "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Not Arca wagneriana but Arca aquila Heilprin, 1886 http://neogeneatlas.org/species/arca-aquila/ Thanks Mike! So I looked closer at the ones I had as well and thought were Arca. I believe I've got A. wagneriana on the left in the comparison photos (seems to have a completely straight hinge line) and then A. aquila on the right. I also included a shot of the diagonal patterns along the hinge line in what I believe is my A.aquila specimen. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The shell on the right is not A. aquila but Barbatia candida. http://neogeneatlas.org/species/barbatia-candida/ "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The shell on the right is not A. aquila but Barbatia candida. http://neogeneatlas.org/species/barbatia-candida/ Thanks Mike. I noticed the hinge differences and should have known something was amiss or at least questioned it. Uggh...I was sloppy...Thanks for the ID! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmayshun Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Sorry to add a bit of lightness to this discussion, but when I found my first shell like this in a pit in Cape Coral Florida, I thought Frank Lloyd Wright must have been alot older than I thought,...the pattern on the bottom is so "Wrightish", (Look up some of the work of Frank LLoyd Wright and you'll see what I mean. Mine have a beautiful brown, that almost looks like Chiton of some sort ...best part of the shell from my viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Sorry to add a bit of lightness to this discussion, but when I found my first shell like this in a pit in Cape Coral Florida, I thought Frank Lloyd Wright must have been alot older than I thought,...the pattern on the bottom is so "Wrightish", (Look up some of the work of Frank LLoyd Wright and you'll see what I mean. Mine have a beautiful brown, that almost looks like Chiton of some sort ...best part of the shell from my viewpoint. No problem. Frank did grow old and had influence all over the place. I used to see some of his handy work at the Marin County Civic Center in California on a fairly regular drive by basis. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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