Trilobiting Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Found this online. The seller claims it's an oreodont brain cast (with one end broken off). Was collected from White River Formation, South Dakota. It does to similar to an endocast. Edited August 9, 2016 by Trilobiting "Fossils have richer stories to tell about the lub-dub of dinosaur life than we have been willing to listen to." - Robert T. Bakker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guguita2104 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Hi ! Just a rock or a weathered fossil shell steinkern (I can't tell you from the photos), sorry. Soft tissue preservation on that cases is EXTREMELY rare. Regards, Edited August 8, 2016 by Guguita2104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 BRAINS!!!..... Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDudeCO Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Quick someone call the scarecrow! And make sure to tell him to be more specific next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgehiker Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Oreodont brain casts are somewhat common fossils. It looks like one to me. The brains soft tissue was replaced with sediment and hardened. I have no idea if the fossil offered is legitimate but... Edited August 8, 2016 by Ridgehiker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 nice rock "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Oreodont brain casts are somewhat common fossils. It looks like one to me. The brains soft tissue was replaced with sediment and hardened. I have no idea if the fossil offered is legitimate but... It is not a cast of the brain as it does not show any of the crenulations of the outside of the brain. It however may be a mold of the interior of the braincase (after the brain has rotted away) that shows the features on the inside of the skull. In other words... fill a human skull with sediment and let it harden. The interior mold of the skull does not look much like a human brain. Edited August 9, 2016 by DPS Ammonite 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast. figure from: Macrini, T. E. (2009) Description of a digital cranial endocast of Bathygenys reevesi (Merycoidodontidae; Oreodontoidea) and implications for apomorphy-based diagnosis of isolated, natural endocasts. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 29(4):1199-1211 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I agree it's looks like the real deal, thanks for pointing that out. Removed my comment from the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilobiting Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast. IMG1.jpg figure from: Macrini, T. E. (2009) Description of a digital cranial endocast of Bathygenys reevesi (Merycoidodontidae; Oreodontoidea) and implications for apomorphy-based diagnosis of isolated, natural endocasts. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 29(4):1199-1211 Considering the end is broken off. It does look like an oreodont endocast. "Fossils have richer stories to tell about the lub-dub of dinosaur life than we have been willing to listen to." - Robert T. Bakker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Here are 8 examples of my Endocasts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast. IMG1.jpg figure from: Macrini, T. E. (2009) Description of a digital cranial endocast of Bathygenys reevesi (Merycoidodontidae; Oreodontoidea) and implications for apomorphy-based diagnosis of isolated, natural endocasts. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 29(4):1199-1211 I mean no ridicule. An "cranial endocast" is an interior mold of the cranium. A cranium is the skull and not the brain. Thus the rock is a fossil of the cranium. Nearly all infillings of animal skulls are interior molds of a skulls (AKA endocasts). A cranial endocast gives clues as to the dimensions of the brain but is not a fossilized or petrified brain. Similarly a clam steinkern is not a cast of the clams internal organs, it is a mold made against the interior of the shell. 5 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilobiting Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 Here are 8 examples of my Endocasts. IMG_5661.JPGIMG_5662.JPGIMG_5663.JPGIMG_5664.JPGIMG_5665.JPGIMG_5666.JPGIMG_5667.JPGIMG_5668.JPG Nice ones. "Fossils have richer stories to tell about the lub-dub of dinosaur life than we have been willing to listen to." - Robert T. Bakker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Nice ones. Thanks- they are always a favorite of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I mean no ridicule... I was not referring to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Yes, very likely a White River brain cast, albeit rather worn. Whether it is oreodont or not is tougher to confirm... There are several other animals found there that are the same size, but oreos are the most common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Just WOW! it never entered my 'brain' to even think there are cranial endocast out in the fossil world! This is a very cool thread. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusFossils Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) The ridicule is certainly unwarranted. It looks remarkably similar to this oreodont endocast. .... Considering the fact that this fossil is being sold as a fossil brain (and thus exhibiting soft tissue preservation), I’d say that the ridicule is well warranted. There a big difference between a fossil brain and an endocast, a difference which the seller conveniently ignores in order to attract buyers that otherwise might not be tempted to drop 50$. Edited August 9, 2016 by MarcusFossils 1 Website: https://www.instagram.com/paleo_archives/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- “It is by no means an irrational fancy that, in a future existence, we shall look upon what we think our present existence, as a dream.” ― Edgar Allan Poe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 A brain, now that IS cool. Whoda thought. I want one now. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Considering the fact that this fossil is being sold as a fossil brain (and thus exhibiting soft tissue preservation), I’d say that the ridicule is well warranted. There a big difference between a fossil brain and an endocast, a difference which the seller conveniently ignores in order to attract buyers that otherwise might not be tempted to drop 50$. Education is warranted...ridicule is not the purpose of this sub-forum. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 A brain, now that IS cool. Whoda thought. I want one now. Me too. Mine needs some backup. ;-) Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 On 8/9/2016 at 11:51 AM, MarcusFossils said: Considering the fact that this fossil is being sold as a fossil brain (and thus exhibiting soft tissue preservation), I’d say that the ridicule is well warranted. There a big difference between a fossil brain and an endocast, a difference which the seller conveniently ignores in order to attract buyers that otherwise might not be tempted to drop 50$. I wasn't looking for a debate on semantics. Without any supporting evidence, it was unfair to make fun of a legitimate fossil. The seller's intent was not to mislead anyone. Although the auction title uses the word brain, the item description states: "Here's a real treasure- a fossil brain cast of an Oreodont from the Oligocene period." It's unfair to assume the seller 'conveniently ignores' anything. It's not a crime to use a sensational headline to attract attention. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I wasn't looking for a debate on semantics. Without any supporting evidence, it was unfair to make fun of a legitimate fossil. The seller's intent was not to mislead anyone. Although the auction title uses the word brain, the item description states: "Here's a real treasure- a fossil brain cast of an Oreodont from the Oligocene period." It's unfair to assume the seller 'conveniently ignores' anything. It's not a crime to use a sensational headline to attract attention. There is much confusion in both the lay and sometimes the professional paleontology community as to the proper definitions of cast, mold and endocast. I wish that the term "endocast" had never been invented because of the confusion that it causes. An endocast is a term of art that means: an interior mold of the braincase or skull. A brain cast in not a synonym of an endocast even though they look similar. I agree that we should not be overly critical of the seller. Hopefully the seller and the buyers know that it is not the actual fossilized brain. Someone could educate the seller about the difference. After all, we at the Fossil Forum try to civilly argue points and educate others without harsh criticism or confrontation. 3 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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