Dangerous Digging In Bakersfield?

[Crinoid Queen]

Im sry to hear about your illness. My mother told me to ask if you had been tested for a rare dimorphic yeast called oculary/pulminary histoplasmosis. She was diagnosed with it when she was 16 and it cause almost the exact same symptoms. This yeast is particularly dangerous b/c it can cause optic nerve damage if not treated quicly. Hope fully everything is resolved for you though and it is over and done with. Glad you are back with us

[Hawkeye]

Im sry to hear about your illness. My mother told me to ask if you had been tested for a rare dimorphic yeast called oculary/pulminary histoplasmosis. She was diagnosed with it when she was 16 and it cause almost the exact same symptoms. This yeast is particularly dangerous b/c it can cause optic nerve damage if not treated quicly. Hope fully everything is resolved for you though and it is over and done with. Glad you are back with us

Histoplasmosis is a disease of the midwest, primarily the Ohio River Valley, and the endemic area does not spread much west of the Mississippi. But that's not a bad guess given the symptoms that have been posted.

[dutchfossilhunter]

Hello Guys!

i am just out of the hospital now, ive almost got 3 liter of moisture(correct word?) in my left lung,

they pumped out with a drain, also had pneumonia thats recovering now,

but the docters think its a sort of valley fever, beceus they see little things in my lungs ont the CT scan

now i am on medication for that

please dont search there without something for your mounth and nose

Greet

Sean

[Auspex]

Sean,

What a dreadful circumstance; I'm very glad that you are on the mend, and hope that your complete recovery is swift.

[Guest Inyo]

Hello Guys!

i am just out of the hospital now, ive almost got 3 liter of moisture(correct word?) in my left lung,

they pumped out with a drain, also had pneumonia thats recovering now,

but the docters think its a sort of valley fever, beceus they see little things in my lungs ont the CT scan

now i am on medication for that

please dont search there without something for your mounth and nose

Greet

Sean

Yes, probably most of us here suspected Valley Fever right from the get-go. It just had to be. Nothing else really fit. The only other disease I could think of was the infamous Swine Flu (which has now reached Pandemic proportions...Of course, if that were the case, one or more of you must have aleady had the infection). Curious, though, that the original poster has not yet had a formal, confirmed diagnosis of cocci. Sometimes this is rather tricky. All of the symptoms (primary lung infection--leading to pneumonia) combined with the circumstances surrounding the appearance of symptoms (digging around in uncultivated, highly alkaline soils of the southern San Joaquin Valley, California--specifically, in the STH bone bed, an area know to contain high numbers of cocci spores, with typical symptoms appearing shortly thereafter), pointed to Valley Fever.

By the way, you'll need to have regular skin tests, once you ostensibly appear "cured," to determine that you've acquired immunity. Once you test positive for having experienced a Valley Fever infection, you're pretty much cured, as I understand the situation; and believe it or not, you will never have to worry about contracting the disease again. You're immune for life, apparently, once the skin test comes back positive. So you could theoretically return to the bone bed any number of times without fear of contracting cocci again.

An excellent overview of Valley Fever can be found over at http://www.valleyfever.com/primer.htm .

[Hawkeye]

By the way, you'll need to have regular skin tests, once you ostensibly appear "cured," to determine that you've acquired immunity. Once you test positive for having experienced a Valley Fever infection, you're pretty much cured, as I understand the situation; and believe it or not, you will never have to worry about contracting the disease again. You're immune for life, apparently, once the skin test comes back positive. So you could theoretically return to the bone bed any number of times without fear of contracting cocci again.

An excellent overview of Valley Fever can be found over at http://www.valleyfever.com/primer.htm .

I do not believe that the coccoidin skin test is commercially available any more.

[FossilForKids]

I do not believe that the coccoidin skin test is commercially available any more.

I am now going in to have an Open Lung Biopsy. I continue to have fevers (low grade) chills, body aches and head aches. My pulmonologist continues to rule out valley fever as does the ID doc. Valley fever certainly makes since for 1 person from the Netherlands but 3 people the same time and with me digging there over 6 years. I have dug there hungreds of times with many people to include the museaum digs and no one with me has ever had this happen. I still think it may have had to due with the hole that Sean, Cor and I were digging in. I know there is no scientific basis for it but let's call it a gut feeling.

John

[Hawkeye]

I am now going in to have an Open Lung Biopsy. I continue to have fevers (low grade) chills, body aches and head aches. My pulmonologist continues to rule out valley fever as does the ID doc. Valley fever certainly makes since for 1 person from the Netherlands but 3 people the same time and with me digging there over 6 years. I have dug there hungreds of times with many people to include the museaum digs and no one with me has ever had this happen. I still think it may have had to due with the hole that Sean, Cor and I were digging in. I know there is no scientific basis for it but let's call it a gut feeling.

John

You, of all people, should have been immune already because of your frequent trips and proximity. There is also the coincidental possibility that you have something completely different from the Dutch guys. Cocci would have been easy to rule out with serology, especially this late in the game, so I would believe the ID doc.

Let us know what the biopsy reveals. Good luck!!

[FossilForKids]

You, of all people, should have been immune already because of your frequent trips and proximity. There is also the coincidental possibility that you have something completely different from the Dutch guys. Cocci would have been easy to rule out with serology, especially this late in the game, so I would believe the ID doc.

Let us know what the biopsy reveals. Good luck!!

I think you're right. We might be talking about apples and oranges. Thanks for the kind words.

John

[Guest Inyo]

I do not believe that the coccoidin skin test is commercially available any more.

Maybe, maybe not. But it should certainly be available to Sean, who is under medical care, and that was my point. Here are the pertinent quotes from the web page at http://www.valleyfever.com/primer.htm :

"One measure of the infected individual's ability to deal with and contain the infection is the "complement fixation titer" of the valley fever blood test. This titer is determined as follows: a small amount of the infected person's serum - the clear part of the blood from which red and white blood cells have been removed – is diluted with an equal amount of salt solution and tested for valley fever. The serum is diluted more and more (one part serum to 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, etc. parts of salt water) and tested at each dilution until a positive test for valley fever can no longer be detected. In general, the more dilute the serum ("higher the titer") the more severe the infection.

"When the body develops immunity to the valley fever fungus, the titer falls and the valley fever skin test becomes positive. High titers (1 to 64 and higher) indicate more severe disease and lead doctors to consider prescribing anti-fungus medicine

"Once you have developed a positive valley fever skin test you are immune and will not get the disease again."

[Guest Inyo]

You, of all people, should have been immune already because of your frequent trips and proximity. There is also the coincidental possibility that you have something completely different from the Dutch guys. Cocci would have been easy to rule out with serology, especially this late in the game, so I would believe the ID doc.

Let us know what the biopsy reveals. Good luck!!

Not necessarily. The cocci fungal spores need to "bloom" under the right weather and temperature conditions to cause infection in humans (and other animals, as well, curiously enough). Perhaps the original poster had never visited the area under the "right conditions" before--hence he was never before exposed. That's where a skin test by his physician would come have come in handy. A positive test early in the game, before the disease runs its course and his immunity kicks in, showing a positive reaction to having been infected by cocci, could have easily ruled out cocci (that is, if the skin test came back positive, the original poster would be suffering from a different malady).

Perhaps it was his unlucky day, at last. Also, he said something about digging in a new area, near Ant Hill. The fungal spores prefer uncultivated soils, so any digging in a new area could potentially cause problems. Folks who frequent the most frequently dug areas at Shartooth Hill Bone Bed probably have little to fear from cocci (I'd still be wary, though--I never visit the Sharktooth Hill Bone Bed any longer, by the way--not only because of the cocci threat, but because just how many more shark teeth from the same old species do I really need?), since those soils are already severely disturbed--cultivated, in a sense. Plus, the incubation period described by the original poster is exactly correct--around two to three weeks (I believe he said three weeks). All three fellows came down with the same symptoms within virtually the identical time frame. Typically, the virulence of cocci is directly proportional to the number of spores one enhales during an exposure. Sounds like all three hit the cocci jack pot this time around.

Too, you're point about serology ruling out cocci this late in the game may not be accurate. Sean's physicians highly suspect cocci (enough suspicion to place him on medications specific for that disease) even without serology, based on distinctive lung lessions. It all adds up to cocci, in my view. The good news for the original poster and Sean is that the infection appears confined to the lungs (where the vast majority of cases remain, fortunately). It has not developed into meningitis or another terrible dessiminated form.

[siteseer]

It's an odd condition that can strike people at different severities and I have heard it is not widely studied among doctors outside of the prime areas of infection. One of the hubs of incidence is actually the Phoenix area.

I've tried collecting with a mask but on a hot day, it's unbearable for me.

Mammals in general can get it. One of Bob Ernst's dogs died of it (Bob with all his digging never got it) and so did a gorilla at the San Diego Zoo.

It never kept me from digging there. Yeah, it's true you find more of the same stuff but each trip offers a chance at something rare (a megalodon, a bramble, a Parotodus, or a really big mako) or a nice marine mammal bone. I never got tired of the common stuff anyway and you could always find more in the matrix at home. It was nice and quiet out there. It was great hanging out with Bob too.

Not necessarily. The cocci fungal spores need to "bloom" under the right weather and temperature conditions to cause infection in humans (and other animals, as well, curiously enough). Perhaps the original poster had never visited the area under the "right conditions" before--hence he was never before exposed. That's where a skin test by his physician would come have come in handy. A positive test early in the game, before the disease runs its course and his immunity kicks in, showing a positive reaction to having been infected by cocci, could have easily ruled out cocci (that is, if the skin test came back positive, the original poster would be suffering from a different malady).

Perhaps it was his unlucky day, at last. Also, he said something about digging in a new area, near Ant Hill. The fungal spores prefer uncultivated soils, so any digging in a new area could potentially cause problems. Folks who frequent the most frequently dug areas at Shartooth Hill Bone Bed probably have little to fear from cocci (I'd still be wary, though--I never visit the Sharktooth Hill Bone Bed any longer, by the way--not only because of the cocci threat, but because just how many more shark teeth from the same old species do I really need?), since those soils are already severely disturbed--cultivated, in a sense. Plus, the incubation period described by the original poster is exactly correct--around two to three weeks (I believe he said three weeks). All three fellows came down with the same symptoms within virtually the identical time frame. Typically, the virulence of cocci is directly proportional to the number of spores one enhales during an exposure. Sounds like all three hit the cocci jack pot this time around.

Too, you're point about serology ruling out cocci this late in the game may not be accurate. Sean's physicians highly suspect cocci (enough suspicion to place him on medications specific for that disease) even without serology, based on distinctive lung lessions. It all adds up to cocci, in my view. The good news for the original poster and Sean is that the infection appears confined to the lungs (where the vast majority of cases remain, fortunately). It has not developed into meningitis or another terrible dessiminated form.

[tracer]

well, FFK and Sean, you know i was really hoping this troubling medical situation would have moved toward resolution. it's very frustrating to only be able to engage in wondering what caused the problem, but i am very hopeful that your connections to the medical community will facilitate getting to a solution. please keep us advised, and know that we are thinking about you.

[jason longboard]

I think you're right. We might be talking about apples and oranges. Thanks for the kind words.

John

was this the spot across from the soccer park? I notice a crystal like layer in that area. WHat type of mask should we be using?

[bear-dog]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck fossil hunting.Just keep in mind everyone here is pulling for you to get well soon.Wow that sounds so bizarre.Keep the faith.

[Dare2Dream]

was this the spot across from the soccer park? I notice a crystal like layer in that area. WHat type of mask should we be using?

Generally speaking, yes, but it is not ant hill or hand glider hill, it is basically south east of hand glider hill, the other side of hand glider hill's eastern slope is my understanding. John had been digging in bakersfield for ages without an encounter with valley fever, so that says a lot about the dangers of digging there.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Dare2Dream

[jason longboard]

Generally speaking, yes, but it is not ant hill or hand glider hill, it is basically south east of hand glider hill, the other side of hand glider hill's eastern slope is my understanding. John had been digging in bakersfield for ages without an encounter with valley fever, so that says a lot about the dangers of digging there.

well check this out then. Ive been in the same area of the shell beds he says he was at, and have brought a lot of the shell bed portions home and planned on trading some of the portions with anyone who may just want a piece of this spot before you cant get it, not much of the shell exposed anyways and its thick and rock hard. Was not fun getting lol. Anyways, from all this, do you think its safe to have the portions around? I wear a mask now while digging the top soil which is supposed to be the fever zone, not the actual bone bed or even near it. Do we actually think he got something from the shells or just the area or none of the above?

Edited August 12, 2010 by jason longboard

[tracer]

who washes your clothes? whether you intend to only risk your own life, or include others in the risk, read up on valley fever. consider whether being young and healthy means that you haven't been "dosed" with a permanent gift that will surface at some much later point in life when your immune system isn't what it is now. find some pictures of what valley fever can do to people.

[jason longboard]

who washes your clothes? whether you intend to only risk your own life, or include others in the risk, read up on valley fever. consider whether being young and healthy means that you haven't been "dosed" with a permanent gift that will surface at some much later point in life when your immune system isn't what it is now. find some pictures of what valley fever can do to people.

Im talking about the portions of the shell bed that are below the valley fever soil. Exposed out the side of the hill. The OP seems to think its not valley fever and something from the shell beds right, so should I worry about the fossils themselves?

[Auspex]

The vector for infection is spores, and inhalation of these spores is bad.

If you are stirring up dust, there is a risk.

[Hawkeye]

Im talking about the portions of the shell bed that are below the valley fever soil. Exposed out the side of the hill. The OP seems to think its not valley fever and something from the shell beds right, so should I worry about the fossils themselves?

No, the OP nearly died from disseminated coccidiodomycosis, which is Valley Fever. He was a long time digger who probably was infected by an overwhelming innoculum, which can happen to anyone on any given day. However, you are right that in undisturbed soil the cocci arthrospores will be in the top soil layer and not down in the fossil bed. Once the soil is disturbed, the arthrospores become airborne and can settle anywhere.

[tracer]

or if, say, the wind blows.

[CreekCrawler]

Watching this topic with great anticipation....

I have an Isurus in the matrix from the post originator and just touching the matrix portion gives off a very fine dust

[Tony Eaton]

I wonder what it would take to disinfect that tooth Barry?

My friend's dad died from that fungus, from El Paso. Dang, looking at the range it is rather close to North Texas.

[jason longboard]

I wonder what it would take to disinfect that tooth Barry?

My friend's dad died from that fungus, from El Paso. Dang, looking at the range it is rather close to North Texas.

there's around 400,000 ppl in this town alone. Thousands of us use those areas every month and this stuff has been being dug up since I was a little kid or longer, much longer I think. Now you guys are thinking valley fever is on the tooth you took home. My concern was if he caught something else from the shell beds, now everyone thinks your going to die or get sick from the matrix dug out from several feet inside the mountain? Just keep in mind these hills are used for bikers,joggers, hanglider camping ppl, cattle, the CA living museum is across the street and so are the giant soccer park fields. Then the biggest park in town Hart Park with fishing rafting and boating. THis is not some deserted desert area by any means. TOns of housing as well. Our concern is huffing in the top soil if your diggin it up a lot, sure it floats around but everyone in this area would have it by now if it were that bad, Im not saying it cant be bad, Im learning as well. However it sounds like some of you think this area is a no mans land and its not. Im just trying to clear that up. Not trying to sound mean at all. Also, these teeth and bones have been sold and trade for years and years from here. Edited August 13, 2010 by jason longboard