Buying Fossils

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

I was just wondering if anyone else out there was like me when it came to getting our collections. Until I was 40, I refused to buy any fossils, insisting that I would only have them in my collection if I actually found them (or my wife found them). Until that time, the only specimen I had, that was purchased, was a gift Meg tooth from my father when I was 10. However, I eventually relized that I was not going to Russia to collect their Trilobites, or Morocco, or Argentina, or China... So now I have several purchased items and really enjoy them. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

[jkfoam]

Alabama,

Your sentiments on purchasing fossils are pretty close to mine. I think it comes down to what each of us want in our collection. At first I collected what ever fossil I copuld put my hands on. Later, I specialized in Texas Eocene fossils and assembled a pretty good collection and expanded it to include some other Gulf Coast Eocene sites. I soon realized I would never have the personal resources, time, or for that matter the inclination to collect personnally from everywhere other than close to home. I have developed interests in certain fossil animal Classes and Orders. And to put totether a repersentative collection I realized I would have to purchase or trade to acquire such a collection. Our interest in fossils and our fossil collections are very personal things and should be what we want it to be.

I knew a fellow once that collected fossil jellyfish. Now I can tell you that there are not a lot of fossil jellyfish anywhere and I don't think this fellow ever personnally found a jellyfish. He had a very nice collection but there were not a large number of specimens in his collection.

JKFoam

[ebrocklds]

i started out very young collecting fossils so i didn't have moeny to buy them. consequently everything i had was self collected. after visting the same sites for several yars and ammassing 1000's of elrathia trilobites i decided it was time to sell and trade some away. for along time i only purchased fossils with money i made selling fossils. this worked for me as i could justify it easily.

i just have a hard time specializing so i have ended up with a huge collection of just about every type of fossil you can think of.

it is a matter of preference.

brock

[geofossil]

I've never bought or sold a fossil but have no issue with those who do. As the above postings rightly point out, each to their own. It's a way to build the core of a desired type of fossil.

My concern is with the material that is being bought and sold. 'If' I was buying a fossil I would only buy it from the original collector (orlocal dealer) and want FULL DETAILS. What the heck is a trilobite 'from Russia'. what is 'Russia' or 'China'. When you collect a fossil on an outing do you label it 'from the USA'?. Of course not. Any such identification makes it no more than a pretty object.

'Ammonite from Morocco' Get yourself a postcard for 50cents instead.

A fossil for sale should have the age, the 'specific' narrow location (town, county, etc). Hopefully it should also have the formation...the quarry, river, etc. The genus and species identification is nice but that's subjective and less important than collecting info. How often do you colllect a fossil and don't know the species?....all the time....then why do you think the dealer, who has never collected in that location, knows the identification? He doesn't.

Anyone who actually collects their own minerals and fossils knows an area. If I bought fossils I wouldn't be reluctant to purchase from jkfoam or Harry or Danwoer, etc. BUT...'ABC Fossils' from Indiana ...no way. Most folks who do their own collecting can spot the mistakes. There's no way that 'tooth' or that 'ammonite', etc. was found in that particular locale where they've collected for years. You get to know the colour, preservation and so on. When I see a mineral 'from Canada' I know it could be from anywhere, a fake. misidentified, etc. If it says from the 'Wolverine mine in Yellowknife' then it is puting itself to the test as anyone familiar with that site would know if it is legitimate or not.

Not some but the majority of fossils I see sold on the Internet are incorrectly identified. Of dino, fossils I'd say 90% of the ID's are wrong, or if right, lucky guesses. It's a bit sad to see some dino tooth for $250 with a 'SOLD' beside it knowing the buyer has something all together different. The funniest are fossil dealers selling estate collections...you can tell labels are mixed up and old Charlie who kicked the bucket might not have had half the specimen labeled correctly in the first place....in fact he might have bought that incorrectly identified dino tooth.

If you want to buy a fossil then make sure it has complete collecting info. Google and find out more on the specimen. Post a photo on a site like this and ask for advice. DON'T buy it and then look for info. ...and please, don't go trading bought fossils with other collectors and passing on false information.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

Wow Geo, I've been mentioned in the same breath as greatness (JK and Harry)...I'm flattered.

My personal philosophy is that if I didn't collect it, my collection doesn't really require it. There is still lots of very cool stuff in other states that is within reach if I want it badly enough and am willing to make the sacrifice. It gives me something to aspire to. For instance I'd love to collect Eurypterids in NY, echinoids in the Carolinas and FL, Triassic reptiles in NM, ammonites in WY and the Dakotas, Oligocene mammals and turtles in NE, shark and fish material in KS, crabs in WA, etc. In the meantime Texas is huge and presents such a wide variety of material that I'm currently content to pursue 90% of my collecting within its expansive boundaries.

I've purchased a few things, done a few trades, and gotten a few nice gifts in the past (thanks Brock!) and many are on display at home, but I'm an adventure addict and therefore relish my time afield. I also enjoy research, planning, prep, and attempting to time my trips perfectly. My approach is to keep several sites in mind for every weekend then at the last minute choose the best for the conditions.

The trouble for me is that I don't live on top of as many good exposures as do the lucky souls in places like the DFW area. Consequently for variety I have to drive hundreds of miles per weekend. In terms of diesel and expensive repairs on my truck, finances always pose a threat to my continued mobility in this pursuit.

2 things work hand in hand to secure my continued collecting future - sites and ca$h. I held out for a long time, but the price of fuel finally made me cry "uncle" and I began selling off a few surplus items, mainly echinoids. Everything I've sold was self found and prepped. Those boys in Europe sure like their echinoids! I'll never sell out to the point where I do it for money more so than for adventure and scientific interest, but my aspiration is simply to find enough good stuff to build a comprehensive collection, have excess specimens on hand for rewarding helpful people over the years, and generate just enough cash to make this a self supporting avocation.

All that being said, your collecting is only as good as your sites. The more people that know your sites, the dimmer your future prospects at those sites, just as in fishing. I view sites not just as sources of fossils, but as testament to another man's hard work. Only those who regularly put in the time, effort, and money to find virgin sites fully appreciate the value of good site information. I knew early in my collecting that nobody would spoon feed me the quality and quantity of sites I needed to build a museum grade collection, so I committed to doing the legwork myself, and I am content with the results.

Being heavily invested in my sites, I treat them like investments. Once I take what I need from these sites I often invest some of them in people who a) share similar collecting philospophies, are demonstrated as trustworthy with valuable information and c) are willing and able to share varied sites of similar significance because they too have committed to blazing their own trail.

Sometimes I run into people who have great sites I've never visited and want to expand their collections in other areas, but cannot or don't want to go through the collecting experience. I've swung some deals with these people that were quite satisfactory for both parties where I traded specimens for little known yet productive site information. Actually I prefer this sort of barter above all others.

In closing I don't buy fossils anymore, but I'm glad other people do!

[geofossil]

danwoehr,

So true about the value of a site. Some folks don't appreciate the hours we can spend wandering around the badlands, climbing up thousand foot scree slopes in the Rockies, etc. Buying topo maps, knocking on ranch house doors. Often the result....nothing....every so often a bonanza.

Most folks I've had out are A-1 people. I did, however, once have the story from heck. Took a fellow out to my favorite site....always good for a couple dozen dino teeth, etc. Just off the road and perfect on those hot summer days when the temps are pushing a 100F. The place you can lie on your stomach and stare at the ground, pick microvertebrate fossils with one hand, beer in the other hand. Sure enough buddy tells his friend who tells... resulted in the fosil club going out on a collectring trip. End of 'my' site.

Anyways, I can appreciate anyone wanting to recover some of their expenses to supplement the hobby. At least a third of the mileage on our Jeep is out to the badlands, mountains etc. We're semi-retired and it's not an issue but expense becomes a variable for some. Our trips are to get out in nature, hike, birdwatch as much as fossil collecting.

[Guest solius symbiosus]

I rarely buy fossils(3 or 4 times). As Geofossil already noted, they are nothing more than a paper weight without the specifics of where they were found. Identification is less important than knowing the exact location from which the piece came.

[Northern Sharks]

I agree with Geo. I would never buy something like an "ammonite from Madagascar" or a "trilobite from north Africa" -too vague. As a collector who does buy all his shark teeth, I can usually tell what species it is and if the seller describes a location that doesn't fit, it's avoided like the plague. Any reputable dealer will include all pertinent info with the teeth he sells. As far as ebay goes, I won't buy a tooth unless I know at least the general area where it was found, but with most of the ones I'm interested in, the seller knows their info as they are usually uncommon teeth. As for the ammonites and trilobites I've bought (they're all in the ID section), I got decent location/age info even if the ID was incorrect or unknown. Without that, identification is virtually impossible. I always research anything I plan to buy and if the sellers description and my research doesn't match, no sale.

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

The few items that I have purchased came from good dealers with the collecting info. I have only purchased one fossil without actually holding it in my hand, from Indiana9fossils.com. The other fossils came from the same dealer, Stones & Bones, and I got them during his visit to our local Gem & Mineral show. I have also visited his house to see his collection.

However, I will probably continue to buy some of my fossils and find most of them. When you consider that 99% of my collection is found, 1% bought, I see no problem with it. Also, for those who live out west where the geology is more exposed, I can see why you might not have any desire to purchase fossils. As far as trading for fossils, something I have only done with a dealer, I see no difference than buying the fossil as long as you have good data with it.

I also set up a booth two years in a row, about 10 years ago, at our local show and sold some of my extras. I was real cheap, so the kids and school groups loved my table (a bag w/shark tooth, blastoid, crinoid stem, archimedes, and brachiopod for 50 cents).

It would be my most desired approach to collect everything, but then I would never have the pleasure of the stingray on my wall. (It is still buying it if you go to a pay to dig site and they let you buy the ray if you find one).

[CliffAddicted]

I am a personal collector. If I did not find it personally I probably don't want it. I am sure there could be exceptions to that rule haha. I do sell some small ones to a few people halfway around the world that would otherwise not be able to acquire them. I really like it when someone loves them as much as I do.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

I still take people to significant sites, but I like to get to know them first as well as see what they can bring to the table, then scale the significance of my sites shared to what they are willing to share. No point in generating a net loss of site info for yourself. No hard and fast rules here, it just depends on what I think of the other guy. We are all adults, so I think we should all bring something to the table to the best of our ability.

For instance I have one good buddy who doesn't / can't research sites and has little to offer in that regard. However he is trustworthy, light enough to get in my boat with me, and doesn't mind strapping my boat on top of his car to shuttle it back to my truck. In addition, on single vehicle trips, he always insists on taking his car, driving, and paying for fuel. I bring sites and food to the table. He keeps his mouth shut on site info and we both benefit.

I balance this against dealing with guys with lots of good sites. My monthly fossil reports, although originally written just to document my times afield and share them with family and friends in other states, have proven to be an excellent way to attract the attention of serious collectors with high stakes barter in mind. I am always ready for these people and make sure I have excess specimens etc. on hand when they contact me.

I used to go on lots of club trips when I was getting started, but in general I do the best in areas that most folks don't know about and/or aren't willing to go to. I'll still go out with a club if that is my only way into a quarry or piece of private land, but I also enjoy collecting alone or with small groups of 1-3 other people, especially when there are acres of prime collecting per person. I've run club trips before but find that working alone or in small groups allows for more systematic searching, plus the residual collecting after showing 30 people a spot will pretty much do the site in. Just as in fishing, too many people focused on a single, slow replenishing resource is a recipe for diminishing returns.

The final tenet in my site expansion and preservation strategy delves deeper into selecting which sites to share with which people. Stated succinctly, I prefer to take locals on my long distance trips and bring long distance friends to local sites when I'm on the giving end. This accomplishes 2 things. It allows me to cut the cost of my long distance trips in half and also prevents cultivation of local competition at local sites. At the same time we all get to collect great sites we'd otherwise never know about so everybody wins. This gives me the satisfaction of sharing while saving money and maintaining some amount of control over the sites. I've had people cross me and commercialize hard earned sites in the past, prompting me to sort out my personal rules of engagement. Some sites are simply so productive that human nature kicks in and some people tend to forget about antiquated terms such as honor, trust, etc. So when sharing my favorite sites if I select people who find it difficult, expensive, impossible, or otherwise prohibitive to return without me, future collecting prospects at those sites are more likely for all involved, and this affords me the opportunity to take more individuals over time.

[MB]

Hi all,

Even I have a very low level of english language comprehension, and my english expresion are worst still, I want to say few things:

In my opinion :

a) Byuing fossils it is not a bad thing, in order to increased the collection or other purpose, it is a very good way to do it, so why not?.

When I bought some fossils, usually I knew more about them than the seller, if not, a lot of bibliography,works, tesis, etc. exist in order to know about those fossils and what were doing when they are alives.

Collecting fossils is not a religion for me, just a very pleasant activity that I'm doing for more of 40 years, and it is a very important part of my life... but only that.

I'm searching, broking rocks, walking, driving, burning fuel 3 or 4 times more than you, running, climbing,swapping, donating, receiving,selling sometimes, and buying fossils, almost all are permitted for me.

Few rules I have to do this activity:

a) to be happy doing it

First the Science, later the collection

c) Site's preservation are very important in all senses.

Conclusion, better find it, but why not buy it ?

Best regards,

[jkfoam]

MB,

I like your rules. We should all follow them.

JKFoam

[MB]

Thankyou,

Further, I would want adding this :

d) Do not destroy any fossil prepping it (for to make it more beautiful... f.ex.) as a scientist friend of mine said: before prepping... learning