Sth: Non-teeth

[FossilForKids]

We get so wrapped up on all the great teeth you can find that it's easy to forget there's a reason it's called the "Bone Bed" or Boney Layer". The first picture has whale verts, shark verts, sea lion verts and boney fish verts.

The second picture has a variety of whale and dolphin items such as paddle bones, jaw section, whale periotic and dolphin periotic bones, and Bulla.

[bmorefossil]

they are awesome! thanks for sharing

[Auspex]

I guess there's a lot more than shark's teeth in Shark Tooth Hill; the teeth just get all the glory.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

John - I'll shoot you an advance copy of my June report so you can correct any misidentifications - thanks again man!

[FossilForKids]

John - I'll shoot you an advance copy of my June report so you can correct any misidentifications - thanks again man!

Sounds good Dan

[tracer]

John - I'll shoot you an advance copy of my June report so you can correct any misidentifications - thanks again man!

dan - hey, shoot me an advance copy too, and i'll check the line spacing and fonts.

[siteseer]

Oh yeah, I've seen every element of an Allodesmus (relative of modern sea lions) skeleton, including the baculum, from there. The rare pinniped Neotherium comes from the bonebed as well. It's either a relative of the earliest walrus or a member of the group that was ancestral to walruses. There's also a super-rare pinniped that was the "leopard seal" of that area and time. It was related to Neotherium but much larger. Only teeth are known from there but a skull was recently found of it in a bed about the same age in Orange County, CA (Topanga Fm.). Unfortunately, you just don't hear about all the great other stuff that is less commonly found.

I guess there's a lot more than shark's teeth in Shark Tooth Hill; the teeth just get all the glory.

[FossilForKids]

Oh yeah, I've seen every element of an Allodesmus (relative of modern sea lions) skeleton, including the baculum, from there. The rare pinniped Neotherium comes from the bonebed as well. It's either a relative of the earliest walrus or a member of the group that was ancestral to walruses. There's also a super-rare pinniped that was the "leopard seal" of that area and time. It was related to Neotherium but much larger. Only teeth are known from there but a skull was recently found of it in a bed about the same age in Orange County, CA (Topanga Fm.). Unfortunately, you just don't hear about all the great other stuff that is less commonly found.

I may have a couple neotherium teeth and astralagus (spelling) bone. The large pinniped you're refering to is the Thomasi(sp) I believe one of the two types of Neotherium are quite small. If the museum people are right the two teeth in the picture are Neotherium canines. It is hard me to tell the difference between Neotherium and a Juvenile Allodesmus canine without the whole skull. I will defer to Bosse in this.

The bottom tooth is Allodesmus although I do have some much larger.

[siteseer]

Neotherium has smaller teeth with cusps similar to those of a carnivoran. I don't know how to separate a small Allodesmus canine from that of a Neotherium other than by size. Juvenile Allodesmus are said to be rare/nonexistent in the bonebed so the chances are a small pinniped canine is a Neotherium. It is astragulus, the pulley-shaped ankle bone.

Yes, you must have known Bob Ernst because he always referred to the largest pinniped as simply thomasi, which is the species, the genus being Pelagiarctos. People who learned from him also tend to do that. There is a 1985 paper by Barnes on that.

Bob used to give me all kinds of extra bones whenever I visited him. He always encouraged me to learn about what I had and I have worked on that. He joked that I would then be able to teach him but he knew more than he was letting on.

I may have a couple neotherium teeth and astralagus (spelling) bone. The large pinniped you're refering to is the Thomasi(sp) I believe one of the two types of Neotherium are quite small. If the museum people are right the two teeth in the picture are Neotherium canines. It is hard me to tell the difference between Neotherium and a Juvenile Allodesmus canine without the whole skull. I will defer to Bosse in this.

The bottom tooth is Allodesmus although I do have some much larger.

[FossilForKids]

...you must have known Bob Ernst because he always referred to the largest pinniped as simply thomasi, which is the species, the genus being Pelagiarctos. People who learned from him also tend to do that.John

[siteseer]

Bob was a very good friend of mine. I was digging with him just 2 weeks before he died. I dug on his land for about 4 years. I do tend to use the common and abbreviated names as did Bob.

John

I met Bob at a gem show in Costa Mesa in 1993. It turned out we had a couple of mutual friends and we became friends. That was right around the time he and Mary got married and not long before they moved. He used to invite me to dig a lot but my work schedule tended to let me go around twice a year. If it rained, we'd hang out at the museum or at the house. One time we drove over to Valley Anatomical to drop off/pick up material for casting. That was an interesting place. Sometimes, we'd dig in the Olcese Sand too.

In late March 2007 I was getting ready for a long business trip on the east coast when Bob invited me to come over and dig. Time was a little tight for me but for some reason I felt compelled to go visit him.

We had been digging about an hour and a half when I noticed he was resting, lying on a blanket, so I walked over from my digging spot. If you knew Bob, that was something you never saw. He said he and Mary were getting over the flu. He told me he was okay and that I should keep digging. I kept an eye on him as I dug. He got up and worked a little more but then took another rest. At that point, I suggested we head back to the house and he agreed that time.

At the house he showed some recent finds and gave me a couple of really nice makos as well as a DVD copy of that episode of "California's Gold" that was filmed the previous autumn. That was the last time I saw him. While on my trip, maybe two weeks later, Marcel tracked me down and delivered the sad news. I was able to cut my trip short to attend the memorial service. That night at the reception Bob's brother invited me to dig with the family the next day. That was the last time I collected out there.

[FossilForKids]

I was about to come down and dig when I got the news. Then I was asked by Mary, with my friend Ron, to guide some visitors from the Aurora Fossil Club and help run the weekend Museum dig. I was at the memorial as well and I was asked to say a few words but I was pretty choked up. I visited Mary a month later and she allowed me to go out there for about a half day. For me it was more of saying goodbye than it was digging.

[Auspex]

I now have four non-teeth from STH.

John gave me my first; a bird bone in matrix:

And I just got these from Larry at Fossilsource:

Two avian cervical verts

and the distal end of a tarsometatarsus

Anyone looking for unusual microfossils should check-out Larry's Ebay shop.

[fossilshk]

NICE

[siteseer]

I now have four non-teeth from STH.

John gave me my first; a bird bone in matrix:

And I just got these from Larry at Fossilsource:

Two avian cervical verts

and the distal end of a tarsometatarsus

Anyone looking for unusual microfossils should check-out Larry's Ebay shop.

Bird material isn't that common and an identifiable vertebra is rare. Pseudodontorn bones and beak sections have been found.

[siteseer]

I was about to come down and dig when I got the news. Then I was asked by Mary, with my friend Ron, to guide some visitors from the Aurora Fossil Club and help run the weekend Museum dig. I was at the memorial as well and I was asked to say a few words but I was pretty choked up. I visited Mary a month later and she allowed me to go out there for about a half day. For me it was more of saying goodbye than it was digging.

You can imagine, then, how difficult it was for Marcel and I to deliver the eulogy (I was the other guy in a suit). I had just seen him two weeks before. That was tough but I prepared myself for how hard it was going to be.

Did you know the man who introduced himself as a member of the "Charles Morrice Society" and spoke briefly? I had not heard of that organization and wondered what Bob knew of it. By the time I thought about looking for him, he was gone.

[FossilForKids]

You can imagine, then, how difficult it was for Marcel and I to deliver the eulogy (I was the other guy in a suit). I had just seen him two weeks before. That was tough but I prepared myself for how hard it was going to be.

Did you know the man who introduced himself as a member of the "Charles Morrice Society" and spoke briefly? I had not heard of that organization and wondered what Bob knew of it. By the time I thought about looking for him, he was gone.

I don't remember that guy but I do remember you. I thought you both did a great Job about the Eulogy. I was perturb when some people seemed to focus on Bob's temper instead of his incredible generousity! Th reason Bob was so kind to me at the beginning was because I do voluntary grade school programs and lots of them. You can visit my site at www.fossilsforkids.com I have an area just about STH and I mention Bob. The pictures are mainly from Hart's Park area.

I deeply miss that man.

John

[Boesse]

Not to change the subject, but to comment on the pinniped stuff -

I doubt there is any real way to separate the canines of Neotherium and a juvenile Allodesmus. It is easier to do so with later walruses. There are two other critters that Barnes (1972) described: Desmatophocine sp. B and C. I'm not sure if either of these have been synonymized with Allodesmus yet, but I'm aware that one is still probably a distinct, unnamed taxon.

Neotherium is a basal walrus, and there are a few others that are more primitive - Prototaria planicephala and P. primigenia from Japan, and Proneotherium repenningi from Oregon.

Bobby

[siteseer]

Not to change the subject, but to comment on the pinniped stuff -

I doubt there is any real way to separate the canines of Neotherium and a juvenile Allodesmus. It is easier to do so with later walruses. There are two other critters that Barnes (1972) described: Desmatophocine sp. B and C. I'm not sure if either of these have been synonymized with Allodesmus yet, but I'm aware that one is still probably a distinct, unnamed taxon.

Neotherium is a basal walrus, and there are a few others that are more primitive - Prototaria planicephala and P. primigenia from Japan, and Proneotherium repenningi from Oregon.

Bobby

Bobby,

I wonder if there is more of both Desmatophocine B and C that is known but not yet published. The former is based on a jaw section with severely worn/broken teeth and the latter is represented by an even more fragmentary specimen.

There are a number of pinnipeds listed from the STH Bonebed (Bob once said there may be two species of Neotherium plus three Allodesmus species and Pelagiarctos thomasi). Isn't it unusual for so many to be known from one rather limited time and area? Of course, it is a rich bonebed and might be expected to reflect a fuller diversity than other known pinniped-bearing deposits. Still, is there an area today where as many pinnipeds co-exist (keeping in mind that some may have been just passing through)?