New Mexico Fern Fossils

[Kato]

With a little bit of the fern revealed I took my smallest chisel and smallest hammer to split this specimen. Width of left specimen is 5" (approx 100mm) about 25mm of fern was showing initially 

 

[stats]

On 1/11/2019 at 9:53 AM, Kato said:

With a little bit of the fern revealed I took my smallest chisel and smallest hammer to split this specimen. Width of left specimen is 5" (approx 100mm) about 25mm of fern was showing initially 

 

Nice!  What time period is that from?

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

 

[Kato]

48 minutes ago, stats said:

Nice!  What time period is that from?

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

 

Hi, Rich. It is from what is known locally as the Pennsylvanian Gobbler formation. 

[stats]

On 1/11/2019 at 3:54 PM, Kato said:

Hi, Rich. It is from what is known locally as the Pennsylvanian Gobbler formation. 

Is that related to the Kinney Brick Quarry fossils?   I just read about them recently.  Interesting material.

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[Kato]

19 hours ago, stats said:

Is that related to the Kinney Brick Quarry fossils?   I just read about them recently.  Interesting material.

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

No, I think we may be about 100 miles physically south and millions of years apart.

 

Looks like Kinney Brick Quarry is upper Pennsylvanian. The specimens I found are mid-to-lower Pennsylvanian.

 

 

Anyway, the formation marked on a stratigraphic map indicates it was Gobbler Formation...but I was unable to find any attributions for fern fossils in the Gobbler. Numerous literature references to both cordaites and ferns in the Beeman Formation so the strat map may be in error, though immediately below where I found the ferns I did find the topmost formation associated with the upper Mississippian. Could be a discontinuity in the timeline.

[jdp]

Whoa very nice.

 

Yes, Kinney Brick Quarry is youngest Pennsylvanian (Gzhelian) and is more or less equivalent in time to sites like Hamilton, Kansas. As far as I can tell, Gobbler might be correlative with Mazon, or itmay be a bit older, correlating with Joggins or Manning Canyon Shale. I think Manning Canyon Shale, which is now thought to be early Pennsylvanian (=Atokan) might be your best comparison. 

 

Please please please keep an eye out for any vertebrate fossils, including fish fragments, articulated fish, shark teeth, and tetrapods....we know very little about the vertebrates of the southwest at this time and any such fossils would be incredibly important. I'll do a little more reading and see if I can find any sources on the plants; that may well be the first record there, too.

[stats]

20 hours ago, Kato said:

No, I think we may be about 100 miles physically south and millions of years apart.

Looks like Kinney Brick Quarry is upper Pennsylvanian. The specimens I found are mid-to-lower Pennsylvanian.

 

 

Anyway, the formation marked on a stratigraphic map indicates it was Gobbler Formation...but I was unable to find any attributions for fern fossils in the Gobbler. Numerous literature references to both cordaites and ferns in the Beeman Formation so the strat map may be in error, though immediately below where I found the ferns I did find the topmost formation associated with the upper Mississippian. Could be a discontinuity in the timeline.

 

Thanks and cool!  Mazon Creek is also Des Moinesian, so somewhat correlated.   Happy Hunting!  Let us know what you find!

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[Kato]

35 minutes ago, jdp said:

Whoa very nice.

 

Yes, Kinney Brick Quarry is youngest Pennsylvanian (Gzhelian) and is more or less equivalent in time to sites like Hamilton, Kansas. As far as I can tell, Gobbler might be correlative with Mazon, or itmay be a bit older, correlating with Joggins or Manning Canyon Shale. I think Manning Canyon Shale, which is now thought to be early Pennsylvanian (=Atokan) might be your best comparison. 

 

Please please please keep an eye out for any vertebrate fossils, including fish fragments, articulated fish, shark teeth, and tetrapods....we know very little about the vertebrates of the southwest at this time and any such fossils would be incredibly important. I'll do a little more reading and see if I can find any sources on the plants; that may well be the first record there, too.

On my radar is a trip into the highest levels of the Mississippian (Rancheria) for shark teeth. 

 

The shale containing fern field is very interesting. It seems to be iron rich. I think it sits on a bed of Camptonite which has altered it. Here is a few other things of interest all obtained from 'whacking' pieces apart)

 

Fern and Cordaite

 

 

 

If you are interested in more details, PM me. I think I have about a dozen specimens collected from my 2 trips there.

 

As I moved west in the field about 50 yards the ferns disappeared and these Liesegang structures began appearing.

 

I've yet to be able to spend more than 3 hours there total. It is about a 8 mile RT hike in a remote area. 

 

Believe me I have been looking for fish, insects, etc. 

[Fossildude19]

@Kato @stats @jdp

 

As this discussion had diverged from the original poster's subject, I have split it out and created it's own topic.   

[Kato]

1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

@Kato @stats @jdp

 

As this discussion had diverged from the original poster's subject, I have split it out and created it's own topic.   

Apologies to all. I did not intend to disrupt the 'whack it' thread by my overshare of info in it.

[Kato]

As this now a thread here are more pics. They aren't the best of quality and I've only taken time to photograph about 50% of the specimens.

 

Tight cluster of ferns (2" x 2")

 

 

Cordaite leaf approx 5" long

 

A Cordaite panel (3" x 6") and small fern

 

Two ferns (right one approx 3.5" x 4")

 

Very tiny fern leaves (specimen 1" x 1")

 

Very detailed ferns (3" x 4")

 

This multi-colored Cordaite

 

[ynot]

Amazing colors in these pieces!

[caldigger]

12 minutes ago, ynot said:

Amazing colors in these pieces!

You took the words right out of my keyboard!

Such variations , just stunning. And you say you were only there for a very short time?  Think what you could find in a whole day!

[stats]

11 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

@Kato @stats @jdp

 

As this discussion had diverged from the original poster's subject, I have split it out and created it's own topic.   

Sorry, good idea!

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[stats]

6 hours ago, ynot said:

Amazing colors in these pieces!

Agreed!

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[stats]

10 hours ago, Kato said:

As this now a thread here are more pics. They aren't the best of quality and I've only taken time to photograph about 50% of the specimens.

 

Tight cluster of ferns (2" x 2")

 

 

Cordaite leaf approx 5" long

 

A Cordaite panel (3" x 6") and small fern

 

Two ferns (right one approx 3.5" x 4")

 

Very tiny fern leaves (specimen 1" x 1")

 

Very detailed ferns (3" x 4")

 

This multi-colored Cordaite

 

It looks like these are split shale... is that correct?  Very nice!

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[Kato]

On 1/15/2019 at 9:54 AM, caldigger said:

You took the words right out of my keyboard!

Such variations , just stunning. And you say you were only there for a very short time?  Think what you could find in a whole day!

Even down here the winter days have been too short to do more than exploratory visits. Mid-February will hopefully bring a combination of temperate days with an extra hour of sunlight. It typically takes 2 hours just to get to the site over fairly rugged terrain + 2 hrs for the descent with loaded pack = 4 hours. 

 

All finds are 'float', split via freeze-thaw or via my tools. I've not disturbed the surface.

[caldigger]

Have you thought about skydiving into your dig site? 

"Parafossiling" can open up a whole new world of fun! 

[Kato]

A few more

 

Cordaites

 

Ferns

 

 

 

[Kato]

About 50% of the above also have specimens on the opposite side

 

 

[FossilDAWG]

1 hour ago, caldigger said:

Have you thought about skydiving into your dig site? 

"Parafossiling" can open up a whole new world of fun! 

Thought about it.  That's me the arrow is pointing too.  Sorry about the bad photo, it's a screen grab from a video.

 

Don

[JohnBrewer]

What stunning colours!

[Ludwigia]

Gorgeous colors! Is there manganese as well as iron in there?

[DeepTimeIsotopes]

Very nice colors. They are quite striking against that beige/gray background.

[Kato]

14 minutes ago, Ludwigia said:

Gorgeous colors! Is there manganese as well as iron in there?

It is hard to say. Quite possibly. Very dark in appearance with oranges, reds and a definite appearance of hematite on edges of specimens. Edges are interesting and colorful. I should snap some pics to upload.