Us Turns Over Seized Prehistoric Relics To China

[Nicholas]

WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs officials returned to China on Monday fossils dating from as early as 100 million years ago that had entered the country illegally. They included bones of a saber-toothed cat, a partial skull of a dinosaur and eggs of several other dinosaurs.

Find it HERE!

[Ron E.]

Find it HERE!

Broken link, Nicholas.

[Nicholas]

I fixed the link, thanks for the heads up.

[Frank Menser]

While I can understand the desire of a country to protect its "cultural relics" I have to weigh in on the side of common sense. Quite often these relics come from poor countires where they present an opportunity for income where income is badly needed.

It is that potential income that makes farmers and others more aware of the value of saving these itms rather than just plowing over them or building, which results in the loss of thousands of specimens that otherwiese would be available to science and the world in general.

This IMO is why we have such a problem with counterfiet fossils, which has got to be a burden even on science as some of the fakes have become so clever it takes someone with a high level of expertise to sort through the mess.

[fig rocks]

I say we have to collect them or we'll lose them!

[Nicholas]

Unfortunately I disagree, I feel it is only just that we respect the international laws. In many cases much scientific information is lost abroad to private collections where experts for individual fields are not located. Some times laws are a little too stringent(I deal with this hunting in my own province) but sometimes the regulation is a good thing.

[Frank Menser]

Unfortunately I disagree, I feel it is only just that we respect the international laws. In many cases much scientific information is lost abroad to private collections where experts for individual fields are not located. Some times laws are a little too stringent(I deal with this hunting in my own province) but sometimes the regulation is a good thing.

Somewhere in the midst of things the concept that a law is good ONLY if it serves its purpose has been lost. A law ultimately is just words and changes with the whims of the law makers. Fossils do not have that luxury. Being real they damage and are destroyed and cannot come back when lost.

International Law is about International Political Egos. Justice has nothing to do with it.

[Bear]

Sadly, I must agree with you on that. The 'no surface collecting' law in Alberta is a good example. From where I sit, it seemed that some folks in government got all excited about the 'ammolite' thing - you know, where lapidaries were making tripolets from scraps of ammonite nacre and selling them for use as gems in jewelry.

A thin piece of nacre would be flattened, then glued on top of a thin piece of black onyx. A thin piece of quartz (or more commonly, glass) was then glued on top of the nacre. When the epoxy had set up, the whole thing was worked into a standard cabochon shape, polished and sold. The price was/is about $35 retail per 'stone'. Since the only folks who really like/liked ammolite 'gems' were/are fossil affectionados, the market was/is very limited and the demand never did ramp up well enough to make production a going concern.

Provincial officials seemed to think that flawless, complete museum grade specimens of ammonite were being sliced and diced to fill a huge market and that these fossils would rapidly be gone if something wasn't done. While they were at it, they figured to stop the trade in dino bones as well, so they passed that law.

Now, dino bone fossils lay on the surface and deteriorate into dirt and few ammonites are being removed from their resting places. The ammolite market, which was never robust to begin with, is dead and gone...as are the fine specimens that were saved from Alberta's winter frost wedging. I am aware that substantial surface specimens are currently left to deteriorate in place due to this anti - preservation law which seems to have done the very thing it was created to stop.

Things are often not as simple as they seem.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Bear

[fig rocks]

Sadly, I must agree with you on that. The 'no surface collecting' law in Alberta is a good example. From where I sit, it seemed that some folks in government got all excited about the 'ammolite' thing - you know, where lapidaries were making tripolets from scraps of ammonite nacre and selling them for use as gems in jewelry.

A thin piece of nacre would be flattened, then glued on top of a thin piece of black onyx. A thin piece of quartz (or more commonly, glass) was then glued on top of the nacre. When the epoxy had set up, the whole thing was worked into a standard cabochon shape, polished and sold. The price was/is about $35 retail per 'stone'. Since the only folks who really like/liked ammolite 'gems' were/are fossil affectionados, the market was/is very limited and the demand never did ramp up well enough to make production a going concern.

Provincial officials seemed to think that flawless, complete museum grade specimens of ammonite were being sliced and diced to fill a huge market and that these fossils would rapidly be gone if something wasn't done. While they were at it, they figured to stop the trade in dino bones as well, so they passed that law.

Now, dino bone fossils lay on the surface and deteriorate into dirt and few ammonites are being removed from their resting places. The ammolite market, which was never robust to begin with, is dead and gone...as are the fine specimens that were saved from Alberta's winter frost wedging. I am aware that substantial surface specimens are currently left to deteriorate in place due to this anti - preservation law which seems to have done the very thing it was created to stop.

Things are often not as simple as they seem.

I have to disagree with you about the market being dead and gone along with the fine specimens. The ammolite market is alive and well and seems to be making a comeback. I've sold lot's to Europeans this year at my store. And any surface specimens are quickly snapped up because Alberta laws still do permit surface collecting, it's mining that's not allowed unless you're one of the maybe 3 mines in Alberta that have permits. Anything you do find you're allowed to keep and if you want to sell it you just have to obtain a disposition permit. If you want to export it from the country you just apply for a cultural heritage permit. Pics are sent to the univerisity and unless it's bizarre or spectacular in some way they give you a permit. Also the natives collect on their own lands and they have a booming business going as well because the government has no say about what happens on Indian land!

Now when it comes to dino bone it's a different story, you can surface collect on private land only but never sell or export dino bones.

Also, we have a freind who has an ammolite prossesing facility which produces natural, doublets, and triplets for the lapidarist and not even his wholesale prices are $35ea. Gem quality ammolite tends to go between $300-$500per sq/in. If you want to buy a pendent in Banff (which caters to the Asian and European tourists) you'll be shelling out (no pun intended) about $1000! So if you know where you can get them for $35 you'd better grab them or let me know so I can!

[Auspex]

^^^

Good info re: legalities, Fig; thanks.