Cepholopods and Concretions of the Britton Fromation trip 3

[doushantuo]

[KimTexan]

7 minutes ago, Nimravis said:

That’s it, if I ever go collect fossils with any of the women on the FF, I am going to have them pay for dinner and a big dessert as well as carry my Fossil bag and I will also expect any cool fossils that they find to be placed in said bag.

 

ROFL. That made me chuckle out loud.

[Nimravis]

28 minutes ago, KimTexan said:

ROFL. That made me chuckle out loud.

Yea Kim, you won’t be laughing if we go through a drive-thru window at a fast food restaurant, I am going to Super Size my meal and maybe even get 2 beef patties instead of 1- you won’t be laughing when you see the bill . And to think, I don’t even eat fast food. 

[KimTexan]

I am being vulnerable and honest here. Awkward silence ensues, people fidget.  It is a very personal and intimate thing as a woman to permit someone to pay for things for me, especially a man.

 

One thing I do reasonably well most of the time is articulate my thoughts. However, something I do almost as equally well is open my mouth and insert my foot, figuratively for those who may not understand the term who live in other countries. Hopefully this thought is sound enough to make sense even to males to some degree. Bear with me as if this were an essay in sociology, human behavior. We are all familiar with the concept of the husband providing for his wife and family. I personally believe that when a man and a woman begin to date there is this undertone in the woman's mind of "will he be the one? Will he provide for me and any children we may have." I'm not a man, but I can imagine in the man's mind their runs this internal dialogue of "will she find me an acceptable mate who can take care of her and is able to provide for her needs. Insert visualization of some David Attenborough narrated documentary Planet Earth- Birds of Paradise mating dance to lighten up the tone. If you haven't watched it, its a must see and kind of funny too. Anyway, this letting men pay thing is like the bird trying to win the female bird. It can be a bit awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe all women don't have this sense of being uncomfortable, not knowing his intentions.

 

To permit someone male or female to freely pay for things for me is a strangely complex mixture of trust, respect and submission. If female submission isn't really a factor.

One factor for me is that I’ve definitely been taken advantage of by some men or they’ve expected favors for paying. So, I wish to avoid being placed in any of those situations. Paying for my own stuff avoids all of the awkward and messy stuff.

 

I believe it is within a good man’s nature to want to protect, care and provide for the special woman in his life. 

In the context of that type of relationship I submitted my desire to not want them to pay and permitted them to do so as a sign of respect out of love and care for them. That submission was in response to their sincere care for me. That care had won my trust and made me feel safe.

 

My hope is to provide insight into the mystery of at least this woman’s mind. I am being most vulnerable when I admit that men who insist on paying repeatedly for me (once or occasionally isn’t an issue),  whom I have not developed an intimate, trusting relationship with it is very uncomfortable for me. It tends to create a degree of anxiety for me and at times I don't feel safe with the man when it becomes a pattern. It’s hard to trust he has good intentions when he won’t respect my personal wishes. At least in my culture there has been a reoccurring, but not always pattern where women express their personal wishes and their wishes are disregarded. The women are not respected. Personal wishes or respect for what a person really wants is a very common form of disrespect across both genders. Often it is done out of culture, tradition or perceived or real roles or positions of people.

Women are the "weaker sex" in some respects, not all. Women tend to be vulnerable and many tend to be more passive when a man insists on his way. She is not as likely to speak up and hold her ground. Women are particularly sensitive to not being heard or our wishes not respected. It has to do with how to survive in any culture where one is not the dominate race, gender, education, social status or what have you. You have to be submissive. With regards to this in women, Brene Brown, a very well known sociologist and New York Times Best Selling author has studied this and written that the expected conduct of women is to deny themselves, their comfort and wishes to be socially acceptable, sweet, polite and non-controversial. It is what is expected of many women in American culture and I suspect in other cultures.

So, just a thought for consideration: When you insist on paying are you respecting the wishes of the woman/other person or your own wishes? Do they have a voice? Is their wish valid? Who is the judge of the validity of their wish or personal preference?

Maybe that is not the case for most women, but that is what it boils down to for me. Am I and my wishes respected and honored? If not it is all downhill from there.

There are definitely times when it is acceptable. The celebration of a birthday or personal success. When I have done a kindness or service for someone else who wishes to express their gratitude. When I paid last time and a number of others. So, I am not a complete wet blanket.

 

I edited this post a bit. Writing late at night isn’t a good thing. My reasoning isn’t as sound.

Edited May 25, 2018 by KimTexan

[doushantuo]

*****mumbles that he follows A Handmaid's Tale***

[KimTexan]

27 minutes ago, Nimravis said:

Yea Kim, you won’t be laughing if we go through a drive-thru window at a fast food restaurant, I am going to Super Size my meal and maybe even get 2 beef patties instead of 1- you won’t be laughing when you see the bill . And to think, I don’t even eat fast food. 

Ha ha. I am a generous person. I will gladly treat you out of my southern hospitality if that is how it goes and I will do it with grace. After all, you paid to travel here from Chicago. I paid to drive to McDonalds or other fast food place. The only fast food place I go to is Taco Bell oh and Braum's Ice Cream. 

[DPS Ammonite]

Kim, check out the Dallas Paleontological Society Occasioal Papers Volume 9, 2012 for an interesting article by McKinzie about the fossils of the Britton Formation. The clam is Inoceramus pictus. The gastropods I cannot ID. 

 

Your posts are always interesting and your honesty is refreshing even when you go on a tangent of a tangent. Where else can we have a civil conversation about whether a man or a woman shall pay for a meal. I am more interested in finding out what fossils you found on the trip. Thanks for your great play by play coverage of your fossil trips.

[Coco]

Hi,

 

5 hours ago, KimTexan said:

 

@Coco I am laughing so hard I am crying!

@GeschWhatThis comment made it sound like you had no problem with letting them pay. Maybe something was lost in translation or maybe you set the men up with a very skilled fineness none of us saw coming.  @fifbrindacier

Kim, I was pooling your leg ! It was just for joking but the reactions are interesting.

 

To answer your question, I am going to be 57 years old in a few months and I am very independent woman. For several decades I like very much observing the human behavior, including the relationships (?) men/women. In France also a woman knows what means an invitation to the restaurant in the evening. I am not feminist but I like that the women are respected in all the domains, also this one. I don't "submit" myself easily...

 

Coco

 

 

[fifbrindacier]

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 5:22 AM, KimTexan said:

My goodness, that got a feisty response! I wasn't expecting such a lively dialogue on the topic.  Hum, I'm not ready to admit defeat or surrender.  But at the same time I do wish to be considerate of other's sensitivities, culture and generations. But, bwhaha I can be stubborn and feisty too.  I admittedly am horrible at debates or battles of whit.  I just don't think quick enough at times. I always think about the right response after the conversation is over.

So we're two.

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 11:52 AM, Monica said:

Hi Kim!

 

I'm with you re: paying for dinner (sorry guys!).  I let my husband pay for the first dinner or two when we started dating, but then I insisted on taking turns, and that's pretty much how we've handled things ever since.  Perhaps it is a generational thing (I'm 40), but since I was able to contribute back then and still am able to do so, I like paying my way rather than always having someone else (a man) pay for me.  Now, if Joe is especially insistent on paying, then perhaps you can contribute in other ways (i.e. bring him more fossils )

 

Beautiful Baculites (again)!!!  If I ever get down to Texas I will definitely let you know... (And if you're ever up here in the Toronto area, please do let me know, too - we don't have Baculites up here but we do have other fossil goodies to find )

 

Monica

 

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 7:11 PM, Fruitbat said:

Hiya Monica!  Come down to Texas and I'll buy you dinner (chuckling)!

 

-Joe

 

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:13 PM, ynot said:

Come to California and I will let You buy Me dinner.

 

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 3:43 AM, Herb said:

we had a nice time collecting with Kim, it was generous of her to show us some sites. Thanks again Kim.

You are always welcome in Louisville.

 

18 hours ago, Kane said:

Perhaps not even about gender in re: who pays for what - just basic give and take between people.  I know with Deb, we share finances and household bills, so it doesn't make sense to quibble over who pays as it all comes from that shared pot of money. 

 

That may be true, but the women of TFF are equally as intrepid, knowledgeable, and passionate when it comes to fossils.  And, as an egalitarian space dedicated to respect of all people regardless of gender, ethnicity, age, orientation, faith, political affiliation, or other stuff that may be extraneous to our shared love of fossils, TFF remains a lovely bastion of respect and learning for all. 

 

I can say I'm pretty lucky to have a partner who shares my passion, and is an equal in the field as we both do the hard work of clearing overburden, removing slabs, and splitting rock together. When I have to collect alone, I always feel something is missing from the experience.  

 

8 hours ago, Fruitbat said:

Ce serait un plaisir, chère dame!  Of course...I'm not likely to be in France for a while.  Perhaps we could meet in Rome.  I'm planning to take my daughter to Italy some time this year (with luck).  We took a trip to my old home towns in Germany (Heidelberg, Frankfurt and Munich) last year.

 

-Joe

 

5 hours ago, KimTexan said:

 

@Coco I am laughing so hard I am crying!

This comment made it sound like you had no problem with letting them pay. Maybe something was lost in translation or maybe you set the men up with a very skilled fineness none of us saw coming.  Whatever the case, your response came off so well that I am laughing really hard.

 

I think this is a good humored women vs men mindsets debate. One of those "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" things where we women don't speak the same language as the men. We are just different creatures.

 

I wonder where the generation gap happened for us women. I'm 50, Monica's 40. I have no idea your age Coco, but I wonder if @GeschWhat, who is of a different generation than Monica and I, has a different mindset or maybe @fifbrindacier I have no idea how old she is either, but she may have something to say. I have a liberated woman's mindset in a number of respects, but I am by no means a feminist. I like my soft feminine side even if I am a bit of a Tomboy. I also see men definitely have a lot of unique perspectives, approaches and abilities to offer, which often complement what women have to offer very nicely. Each gender has its beauty and strengths even if we are of different mindsets at times.

I'll be 53 next 9/15 and i entered the club of the fans fossils two years ago, while living a harsh conflictual situation with a collegue i before appreciated very much. It brought me as joy as when i was a little girl in a toy shop before the little cars, electric trains, the fancy dresses of cowboys, indians, knights and Super-man and the Gi-Joe dolls.

5 hours ago, Herb said:

I always take whomever shows me around to collect to lunch, regardless of gender. It is just polite and the mannerly thing to do when someone takes time out of their day to help another collector out.

 

4 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

I’m 15 and though I’m not going out to dinner with my friends too many times a year, when I do I try to pay for them, regardless of gender. Though it seems this might just be something I was raised to do, as many others my age would rather split the bill. To each his own I guess.

 

 

3 hours ago, Nimravis said:

That’s it, if I ever go collect fossils with any of the women on the FF, I am going to have them pay for dinner and a big dessert as well as carry my Fossil bag and I will also expect any cool fossils that they find to be placed in said bag.

 

Hey, come here in the South-west of France, i'll gladly show you my collecting places, let you hammer for me, carry me my bags crowded out of fossils and pay my meals in great restaurants like the three stars one, Gherard's, very near my house where you could eventually have a rest and sleep on the sofa when we, women would have a little glass of Champagne with good little toasts before sleeping in confortable beds. Then you'll understand what the french way of living and sense of hospitality look like.

[Coco]

 

Coco

[Miocene_Mason]

5 hours ago, KimTexan said:

imagine in the man's mind their runs this internal dialogue of

“Does she fossil hunt? Will she care if I fossil hunt?”

[Kane]

6 hours ago, KimTexan said:

I am being vulnerable and honest here. Awkward silence ensues, people fidget.  It is a very personal and intimate thing as a woman to permit someone to pay for things for me, especially a man.

 

One thing I do reasonably well most of the time is articulate my thoughts. However, something I do almost as equally well is open my mouth and insert my foot, figuratively for those who may not understand the term who live in other countries. Hopefully this thought is sound enough to make sense even to males to some degree. Bear with me as if this were an essay in sociology, human behavior. We are all familiar with the concept of the husband providing for his wife and family. I personally believe that when a man and a woman begin to date there is this undertone in the woman's mind of "will he be the one? Will he provide for me and any children we may have." I'm not a man, but I can imagine in the man's mind their runs this internal dialogue of "will she find me an acceptable mate who can take care of her and is able to provide for her needs. Insert visualization of some David Attenborough narrated documentary Planet Earth- Birds of Paradise mating dance to lighten up the tone. If you haven't watched it, its a must see and kind of funny too. Anyway, this letting men pay thing is like the bird trying to win the female bird. It can be a bit awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe all women don't have this sense of being uncomfortable, not knowing his intentions.

 

To permit someone male or female to freely pay for things for me is a strangely complex mixture of trust, respect and submission. If female submission isn't really a factor. I am sure most women can relate in some aspect or another where some man has abused his position of authority in their lives at one point or another. I most certainly have from family members, bosses and supposed friends. Those were not always with regards to pecuniary matters. Other people both men and women have wanted to have some strings attached to money spent in one way or another even when they insisted on paying. So, just from personal experiences I usually wish to avoid being placed in any of those situations. Paying for my own stuff avoids all of the awkward and messy stuff.

 

I had few serious boyfriend before I was married that wanted to pay for things. For some men it seems to be a desire to take care of and provide for their woman (hopefully not in the sense that she is a possession or object to be owned).  In the context of boyfriend's desire to care and provide for me, I submitted my desire to not want them to pay and permitted them to do so as a sign of respect out of love and care for them. That submission was in response to their sincere care for me. It was also a sign of my trust in them that they would not abuse their position in my life or attach strings to it. It was also submitting to them out of trust of their desire for my welfare and wellbeing.

 

This is quite uncomfortable to say mostly because it is difficult to put it tactfully . I am generally quite terrible at being tactful. Open mouth insert foot happens too often. My hope is to not offend or upset anyone and be able to get to the root of the women vs men paying debate and provide insight into the mystery of at least this woman's thinking. Maybe I speak for my sisters in gender as well.  They can affirm or deny what I say. Moderators if you need to edit  or delete it I understand.  (Sorry I got the italics on and can't term them off for the first part there.) I am being most vulnerable when I admit that men who insist on paying for me,  whom I have not developed an intimate, trusting relationship with is very uncomfortable for me. It tends to create a degree of anxiety for me and at times I don't feel safe with the man when it becomes a pattern. The pattern is women express their personal wishes and their wishes are disregarded. The women are not respected. Personal wishes or respect for what a person really wants is a very common form of disrespect across both genders. Often it is done out of culture, tradition or perceived or real roles or positions of people. Women are the "weaker sex". Women are vulnerable and many tend to be more passive when a man insists on his way and she is not as likely to speak up and hold her ground. Women are particularly sensitive to not being heard or our wishes not respected. I won't get into the touchy subject of women's oppression over the millennia, but it ties into women's understanding of how to survive in a male dominated culture. They have to be submissive. Even Brene Brown, a very well known sociologist and New York Times Best Selling author has studied this and written that the expected conduct of women is to deny themselves, their comfort and wishes to be socially acceptable, polite and non-controversial. It is what is expected of us women in American culture and I suspect in most cultures.

So, just a thought for consideration: When you insist on paying are you respecting the wishes of the woman/other person or your own? Do they have a voice? Is their wish valid? Who is the judge of the validity of their wish or personal preference?

Maybe that is not the case for most women, but that is what it boils down to for me. Am I and my wishes respected and honored? If not it is all downhill from there.

There are definitely times when it is acceptable. The celebration of a birthday or personal success. When I have done a kindness or service for someone else who wishes to express their gratitude. When I paid last time and a number of others. So, I am not a complete wet blanket.

Some of this sounds less about gender, and what is known as locus of control (which is not endemic to any particular gender, and can be internally or externally located). At least with respect to the "who pays" issue and not wanting to accumulate some form or "debt"; seeking closure or risk, attributing control to broader forces or to oneself.

 

Also, gender studies has gone beyond a lot of basic assumptions or caricatures about gender -- and feminism, which cannot be reduced to a single umbrella term. When we speak of feminism, which one? There are at least three waves, and plenty of gradations and approaches (such as, for instance, a Lacanian perspective espoused by Judith Butler or Laura Mulvey, a deconstructionist approach by Kristeva and Spivak, an autonomist Marxist approach with those like Mies and Hearn, and now with intersectionality). The benefit of these new approaches is that they can wipe away the stereotypes that one cannot subscribe to a feminist theory because they would have to deny being "softer" as that denial would not be all that feminist. In some of the courses I teach, it is a topic that comes up, but with more emphasis on labour and how the gendered body becomes contextually over-coded as a site of (re)production. In more extreme historical examples, communist societies would allow some degree of gender parity for many roles once dominated by men, but would also expect that the woman's body was the "factory" for producing the workers of tomorrow (and hence the ideological push to be valued on the number of offspring). In the transition from second to third wave feminism, mixed with autonomism, there was a push to recognize that the work performed in the home was actually a form of labour! (Marx himself was no feminist in this regard). 

 

Fortunately, attitudes are changing in many places. We are going well beyond the assumptions of "hardwired genetic predisposition of gender roles" as these are deemed too deterministic. Women are just as capable in politics and business (as we are seeing more women in those power roles), and the STEM disciplines. Some of the barriers were due to broader cultural contexts that are now changing, as well as subscribing to some of the assumptions. It is also the same for men, as not all men are into the stereotypical "masculine" pursuits and interests like sports, cars, and guns. Even the idea of "weaker sex" doesn't much apply when we consider numerous counterexamples, and what we mean by weak/strong. Purely on a physical scale of strength, I'm pretty sure a well trained woman who is a MMA fighter or boxer could clobber an average male!  But what of the other forms of strength? Intellectual, empathic, etc.? A single working mother in a precarious job raising her kids, or fighting for justice and survival in a nation that is falling apart due to war and corruption is a form of strength. 

 

The matter in gender studies gets even more intriguing and dynamic when we consider those who fall within a now broader spectrum of what is considered gender (as it is more than simply biological). LGBTQ is a good example of how roles and assumptions may be changing. I know in my province, we now have seven(!) approved genders.

 

Everyone's cultural context and mileage may vary, but the trend seems to be moving away from male-dominated society in many places. I see that in my own workplaces where gender parity has happened organically, where there is mutual respect and power-sharing.

 

It becomes less a goal to strive to be a good woman or man, and simply to be a good human being.   

[Nimravis]

4 hours ago, fifbrindacier said:

So we're two.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be 53 next 9/15 and i entered the club of the fans fossils two years ago, while living a harsh conflictual situation with a collegue i before appreciated very much. It brought me as joy as when i was a little girl in a toy shop before the little cars, electric trains, the fancy dresses of cowboys, indians, knights and Super-man and the Gi-Joe dolls.

 

 

Hey, come here in the South-west of France, i'll gladly show you my collecting places, let you hammer for me, carry me my bags crowded out of fossils and pay my meals in great restaurants like the three stars one, Gherard's, very near my house where you could eventually have a rest and sleep on the sofa when we, women would have a little glass of Champagne with good little toasts before sleeping in confortable beds. Then you'll understand what the french way of living and sense of hospitality look like.

I would gladly do that. 

[KimTexan]

1 hour ago, WhodamanHD said:

“Does she fossil hunt? Will she care if I fossil hunt?”

Love it! And more wise than you realize!

If I were to give any advice on selecting a mate it would be to make sure you share common interests and activities you’re passionate about.

[fifbrindacier]

1 hour ago, Nimravis said:

I would gladly do that. 

You'll be welcome !

[fifbrindacier]

2 hours ago, Kane said:

Some of this sounds less about gender, and what is known as locus of control (which is not endemic to any particular gender, and can be internally or externally located). At least with respect to the "who pays" issue and not wanting to accumulate some form or "debt"; seeking closure or risk, attributing control to broader forces or to oneself.

 

Also, gender studies has gone beyond a lot of basic assumptions or caricatures about gender -- and feminism, which cannot be reduced to a single umbrella term. When we speak of feminism, which one? There are at least three waves, and plenty of gradations and approaches (such as, for instance, a Lacanian perspective espoused by Judith Butler or Laura Mulvey, a deconstructionist approach by Kristeva and Spivak, an autonomist Marxist approach with those like Mies and Hearn, and now with intersectionality). The benefit of these new approaches is that they can wipe away the stereotypes that one cannot subscribe to a feminist theory because they would have to deny being "softer" as that denial would not be all that feminist. In some of the courses I teach, it is a topic that comes up, but with more emphasis on labour and how the gendered body becomes contextually over-coded as a site of (re)production. In more extreme historical examples, communist societies would allow some degree of gender parity for many roles once dominated by men, but would also expect that the woman's body was the "factory" for producing the workers of tomorrow (and hence the ideological push to be valued on the number of offspring). In the transition from second to third wave feminism, mixed with autonomism, there was a push to recognize that the work performed in the home was actually a form of labour! (Marx himself was no feminist in this regard). 

 

Fortunately, attitudes are changing in many places. We are going well beyond the assumptions of "hardwired genetic predisposition of gender roles" as these are deemed too deterministic. Women are just as capable in politics and business (as we are seeing more women in those power roles), and the STEM disciplines. Some of the barriers were due to broader cultural contexts that are now changing, as well as subscribing to some of the assumptions. It is also the same for men, as not all men are into the stereotypical "masculine" pursuits and interests like sports, cars, and guns. Even the idea of "weaker sex" doesn't much apply when we consider numerous counterexamples, and what we mean by weak/strong. Purely on a physical scale of strength, I'm pretty sure a well trained woman who is a MMA fighter or boxer could clobber an average male!  But what of the other forms of strength? Intellectual, empathic, etc.? A single working mother in a precarious job raising her kids, or fighting for justice and survival in a nation that is falling apart due to war and corruption is a form of strength. 

 

The matter in gender studies gets even more intriguing and dynamic when we consider those who fall within a now broader spectrum of what is considered gender (as it is more than simply biological). LGBTQ is a good example of how roles and assumptions may be changing. I know in my province, we now have seven(!) approved genders.

 

Everyone's cultural context and mileage may vary, but the trend seems to be moving away from male-dominated society in many places. I see that in my own workplaces where gender parity has happened organically, where there is mutual respect and power-sharing.

 

It becomes less a goal to strive to be a good woman or man, and simply to be a good human being.   

I would have love to be able to change a carburator like @GeschWhat or @KimTexan, but my father who claimed to be a feminist from the Marxist approach just told me i was too gentle and that it wasn't a female work.

 

I don't feel happy when i'm with someone, male or female, who insists on paying Something i don't want he or she pays, because it makes me feel i'm considered as no having the capacity to take my own decisions.

In the medical environment i work in, and not always in psychiatric pathologies, a thing we know is that you cannot heal someone who don't want to be heal : even if you cure biologically the illness of the person, his or her mind would still be focused on that illness and on the fact that we, healing personnels, hadn't respect his or her choices.

[Kane]

6 minutes ago, fifbrindacier said:

I would have love to be able to change a carburator like @GeschWhat or @KimTexan, but my father who claimed to be a feminist from the Marxist approach just told me i was too gentle and that it wasn't a female work.

That's a shame.  Of course, French varieties of Marxism have not always been known to be all that "egalitarian." A good example might be J.P. Sartre who, in later life, subscribed to Marxism and yet also treated Simone de Beauvoir very poorly. 

The good news is that if you wanted to learn how to do change a carburetor, you probably still could!  

[fifbrindacier]

1 hour ago, Kane said:

That's a shame.  Of course, French varieties of Marxism have not always been known to be all that "egalitarian." A good example might be J.P. Sartre who, in later life, subscribed to Marxism and yet also treated Simone de Beauvoir very poorly. 

The good news is that if you wanted to learn how to do change a carburetor, you probably still could!  

Alas, the health of my father would not permit him to do that, not speaking about his dexterity in matter of mechanic, and not with my husband, because he and mechanic are really two different and autonom persons.

 

As i told my father that in USSR, the women worked in mechanic he justed answered me that we weren't in USSR. In France, our society is mostly influenced by the mediterranean habits and customs, a point of view hard to get rid off. But i agree with you that this way to see each-other's purpose according to the gender is slowly and hopefully changing, but slowly.

I remember a post where @KimTexan expressed the fear she fealed before the glance a man had on her while she was fossil hunting, and i remember i felt this several times myself.

 

I agree JP Sartre didn't treat her well enough.

[GeschWhat]

8 hours ago, KimTexan said:

I am being vulnerable and honest here. Awkward silence ensues, people fidget.  It is a very personal and intimate thing as a woman to permit someone to pay for things for me, especially a man.

 

One thing I do reasonably well most of the time is articulate my thoughts. However, something I do almost as equally well is open my mouth and insert my foot, figuratively for those who may not understand the term who live in other countries. Hopefully this thought is sound enough to make sense even to males to some degree. Bear with me as if this were an essay in sociology, human behavior. We are all familiar with the concept of the husband providing for his wife and family. I personally believe that when a man and a woman begin to date there is this undertone in the woman's mind of "will he be the one? Will he provide for me and any children we may have." I'm not a man, but I can imagine in the man's mind their runs this internal dialogue of "will she find me an acceptable mate who can take care of her and is able to provide for her needs. Insert visualization of some David Attenborough narrated documentary Planet Earth- Birds of Paradise mating dance to lighten up the tone. If you haven't watched it, its a must see and kind of funny too. Anyway, this letting men pay thing is like the bird trying to win the female bird. It can be a bit awkward and uncomfortable. Maybe all women don't have this sense of being uncomfortable, not knowing his intentions.

 

To permit someone male or female to freely pay for things for me is a strangely complex mixture of trust, respect and submission. If female submission isn't really a factor.

One factor for me is that I’ve definitely been taken advantage of by some men or they’ve expected favors for paying. So, I wish to avoid being placed in any of those situations. Paying for my own stuff avoids all of the awkward and messy stuff.

 

I believe it is within a good man’s nature to want to protect, care and provide for the special woman in his life. 

In the context of that type of relationship I submitted my desire to not want them to pay and permitted them to do so as a sign of respect out of love and care for them. That submission was in response to their sincere care for me. That care had won my trust and made me feel safe.

 

My hope is to provide insight into the mystery of at least this woman’s mind. I am being most vulnerable when I admit that men who insist on paying repeatedly for me (once or occasionally isn’t an issue),  whom I have not developed an intimate, trusting relationship with it is very uncomfortable for me. It tends to create a degree of anxiety for me and at times I don't feel safe with the man when it becomes a pattern. It’s hard to trust he has good intentions when he won’t respect my personal wishes. At least in my culture there has been a reoccurring, but not always pattern where women express their personal wishes and their wishes are disregarded. The women are not respected. Personal wishes or respect for what a person really wants is a very common form of disrespect across both genders. Often it is done out of culture, tradition or perceived or real roles or positions of people.

Women are the "weaker sex" in some respects, not all. Women tend to be vulnerable and many tend to be more passive when a man insists on his way. She is not as likely to speak up and hold her ground. Women are particularly sensitive to not being heard or our wishes not respected. It has to do with how to survive in any culture where one is not the dominate race, gender, education, social status or what have you. You have to be submissive. With regards to this in women, Brene Brown, a very well known sociologist and New York Times Best Selling author has studied this and written that the expected conduct of women is to deny themselves, their comfort and wishes to be socially acceptable, sweet, polite and non-controversial. It is what is expected of many women in American culture and I suspect in other cultures.

So, just a thought for consideration: When you insist on paying are you respecting the wishes of the woman/other person or your own wishes? Do they have a voice? Is their wish valid? Who is the judge of the validity of their wish or personal preference?

Maybe that is not the case for most women, but that is what it boils down to for me. Am I and my wishes respected and honored? If not it is all downhill from there.

There are definitely times when it is acceptable. The celebration of a birthday or personal success. When I have done a kindness or service for someone else who wishes to express their gratitude. When I paid last time and a number of others. So, I am not a complete wet blanket.

 

I edited this post a bit. Writing late at night isn’t a good thing. My reasoning isn’t as sound.

AMEN, sister!

[GeschWhat]

2 hours ago, Kane said:

It becomes less a goal to strive to be a good woman or man, and simply to be a good human being.   

Yep!

[Uncle Siphuncle]

I think self reliance is a solid foundation for adults.  Then if magnanimous gestures lighten the load every now and then, so be it.  Gratitude never goes out of style.

[KimTexan]

Here is a pic of maybe a 1.5 square inch area and all the cepholopods in it. They still need to be prepped to better ID. You can’t fully see them from this angle, but you can see part of them. The numbers are just above each one. I’ll try to give genus of each layer. None of those numbered are baculites. A few species are heteromorphs.

I am pretty sure

#6 is a Pseudocycoceras angolaense it has 3 rows of tubercles.

#3 is an Allocrioceras of some kind.

# 1 May be a  Worthoceras vermiculus.

# 7 May also be a Worthoceras.

I’m still working on prepping them and IDing them.

 

[KimTexan]

@Kane I have gathered you teach, but I have no idea what you teach. So what is your profession?

From that last post it sounds like you teach sociology or something encompassing that or maybe that is a personal study unrelated to your profession.

[fifbrindacier]

I don't know what he teaches, but he's well versed in philosophy.

[DPS Ammonite]

Under Kane's profile, he lists his website that may answer some of your questions: https://kanexfaucher.weebly.com/

 

The real mystery is what does the X in his name stand for: Xiphactinus (a Texas Cretaceous fossil fish)? Could he be saintly?  Maybe the X Man will tell. @Kane

 

Many other TFF members also list in their member profiles, their websites or include other biographical info.