Help on a school project (:

[Notidanodon]

I have finally managed to persuade a teacher to let me do an at least slightly paleontological essay so i'm really happy, however the topic i'm doing is quite broad but i do have 1.5k words to summarise it in,

i would like briefly outline the key crossroads in the evolutionary lineage of humans, i have shortened these to:

 Sarcopterygii-tetrapods ,

reptile to mammal,

4 legged to 2 legged

, i would appreciate any opinions on this and any literature that anyone knew would be helpful,

thanks again, will

[Coco]

Hi,

 

I have already seen this message in another post. You aren't new to TFF, you know that you don't need to multiply your requests !

 

Coco

[Kane]

I have removed the duplicate request. 

 

Part of research is being able to take initiative and do the searching yourself making use of libraries and databases.

As this is a school project, I do not think it is appropriate for us to provide you with the research materials you should be finding yourself.  

[Malcolmt]

I would agree strongly with Kane ..doing the research is a big part of the project.

[Notidanodon]

1 hour ago, Coco said:

Hi,

 

I have already seen this message in another post. You aren't new to TFF, you know that you don't need to multiply your requests !

 

Coco

 

54 minutes ago, Kane said:

I have removed the duplicate request. 

 

Part of research is being able to take initiative and do the searching yourself making use of libraries and databases.

As this is a school project, I do not think it is appropriate for us to provide you with the research materials you should be finding yourself.  

Sorry for the duplicates, I didn’t know it would be a problem, I have never requested something like this so I wasn’t sure, I did some research and I have a book today, but I just thought it would be helpful if anyone could confirm if I was getting it tight as I had exhausted the resources that I had been able to find and there was some contradictory stuff so I thought I could find clarification and help on here

[Notidanodon]

31 minutes ago, Malcolmt said:

I would agree strongly with Kane ..doing the research is a big part of the project.

I did do a lot of research today , again I just wanted some help

[grandpa]

Well Will, I have to say I'm conflicted in my opinion here. 

 

On the one hand, I can think that you are trying to short-cut your research and find an easy way out.  (I don't think that BTW.)

 

On the other hand, I have to stop and think that I am "old school" and from an era before "internet" was even a term (or computer for that matter), a time when research started with a Dewey Decimal System organized library and wooden cabinet library files of cards that one thumbed through searching for relevant books on any topic of interest. 

 

Today, if I want to research a topic, I, sitting in my den, type the topic into my favorite search engine and up pops a multitude of resources, each with its own reference bibliography at the end of the article to lead my research deeper.  In that sense, it could be argued that TFF is just another 'search engine' or 'resource' in which to do one's due diligence in searching.  What is the difference?  I don't think I know.

 

So, let me try to answer that question by asking other questions.  Are you trying to short-cut your research, or are you simply using one of the resources available to you in this "information age"?   I think the answer lies in "what you know and how you know to access it" rather than in the source you access.  Are you asking someone else to do your work for you, or are you taking this input and comparing it to other inputs you glean from other sources and making knowledgeable decisions about the variety of inputs?  I can't answer that for you, only you can answer that.   But I do recognize that you start with a proposed outline that you've come up with through whatever means and asking for a review of that.

 

But since I, nor the admiins of this site can know the full answer for each and every thread, I understand and support (with some reservations) their decision to not provide this 'service'. 

 

On the other hand, and let me be clear on this point, regarding you personally, Will, I am perfectly willing to give YOU the benefit of the doubt based on what I know about you from your interactions on TFF.  I do see you as one who has done his own work and will take any responses as one resource and do further research to compare that to others.

 

Does this make sense?  Do you understand where the admins are coming from and why the general response to any and all inquiries of this type must be what it is?  It is definitely NOT personal I am sure.

 

Hope this helps giving you some understanding of where others are coming from and why. 

[Notidanodon]

35 minutes ago, grandpa said:

Well Will, I have to say I'm conflicted in my opinion here. 

 

On the one hand, I can think that you are trying to short-cut your research and find an easy way out.  (I don't think that BTW.)

 

On the other hand, I have to stop and think that I am "old school" and from an era before "internet" was even a term (or computer for that matter), a time when research started with a Dewey Decimal System organized library and wooden cabinet library files of cards that one thumbed through searching for relevant books on any topic of interest. 

 

Today, if I want to research a topic, I, sitting in my den, type the topic into my favorite search engine and up pops a multitude of resources, each with its own reference bibliography at the end of the article to lead my research deeper.  In that sense, it could be argued that TFF is just another 'search engine' or 'resource' in which to do one's due diligence in searching.  What is the difference?  I don't think I know.

 

So, let me try to answer that question by asking other questions.  Are you trying to short-cut your research, or are you simply using one of the resources available to you in this "information age"?   I think the answer lies in "what you know and how you know to access it" rather than in the source you access.  Are you asking someone else to do your work for you, or are you taking this input and comparing it to other inputs you glean from other sources and making knowledgeable decisions about the variety of inputs?  I can't answer that for you, only you can answer that.   But I do recognize that you start with a proposed outline that you've come up with through whatever means and asking for a review of that.

 

But since I, nor the admiins of this site can know the full answer for each and every thread, I understand and support (with some reservations) their decision to not provide this 'service'. 

 

On the other hand, and let me be clear on this point, regarding you personally, Will, I am perfectly willing to give YOU the benefit of the doubt based on what I know about you from your interactions on TFF.  I do see you as one who has done his own work and will take any responses as one resource and do further research to compare that to others.

 

Does this make sense?  Do you understand where the admins are coming from and why the general response to any and all inquiries of this type must be what it is?  It is definitely NOT personal I am sure.

 

Hope this helps giving you some understanding of where others are coming from and why. 

Thanks grandpa i appreciate you taking the time to do this and giving me the benefit of the doubt, you are right in the fact that i'm in noway trying to short cut anything, i always cite my resources

 

and i viewed this site as the best treasure trove of obscure articles that couldn't be find with simple google searches, i wasn't trying to get anyone to do research for me (though i could see how it could

 

be interpreted like that) anyway as in fact i quite like doing it myself, especially when its on a topic that im fascinated by, to summarise and clarify what i was asking for, i was asking if anyone knew any

 

obscure documents/articles that i could not find elsewhere on the internet, i would liken it to asking a friend (if he/she had a book collection) if they had a book in their library that could help me, its not

 

asking them to go through that book and pick out useful bits, that's my job as the researcher, i was just asking for a friends slight help as i dont have access to massive libraries anytime and especially

not now

[grandpa]

6 minutes ago, will stevenson said:

i wasn't trying to get anyone to do research for me (though i could see how it could be interpreted like that) anyway as in fact i quite like doing it myself, especially when its on a topic that im fascinated by,

Indeed!  And I can see your passion for anything paleontological, as well as your excitement in getting to do a paper on a related topic.  I think I know you from your participation in the forum.  As I see you, you are a person of integrity with a strong interest in paleontology, a valued member of the forum.  I appreciate your participation.  I know we all do.

[connorp]

1 hour ago, will stevenson said:

obscure documents/articles that i could not find elsewhere on the internet, i would liken it to asking a friend (if he/she had a book collection) if they had a book in their library that could help me, its not

 

asking them to go through that book and pick out useful bits, that's my job as the researcher, i was just asking for a friends slight help as i dont have access to massive libraries anytime and especially not now

Learning how to find literature is certainly one of the most important tools a researcher can have. And this is certainly not trivial to learn. I don’t doubt that there are thousands upon thousands of articles written about the topics you’ve listed, but very few will be titled “Summary of the transition from reptiles to mammals.” If you find an interesting title that you don’t have access to, then you definitely should ask here. But finding the titles in the first place can be a lot of work.

[FossilNerd]

I agree with @grandpa. I don’t think you would, or are trying to, get anyone to do the research for you. I think, as you said, you are asking to “borrow the book(s)” so that you can do the work yourself. To me it’s no different than asking the librarian/teacher/professor if they have a recommended book on the subject. If you asked the librarian where the books on evolution were, they would be glad to point you to the appropriate shelf, or section of shelves, and to recommend any specific book they thought would help. They won’t read the book to you, and do the work, but they would give you a starting point if they could. Then again, I have been accused, more than once, of being too nice.  
 

I’d be glad to let you “borrow the book” but unfortunately, to I don’t think I have a book on the subject that would help.  

[Notidanodon]

16 hours ago, FossilNerd said:

I agree with @grandpa. I don’t think you would, or are trying to, get anyone to do the research for you. I think, as you said, you are asking to “borrow the book(s)” so that you can do the work yourself. To me it’s no different than asking the librarian/teacher/professor if they have a recommended book on the subject. If you asked the librarian where the books on evolution were, they would be glad to point you to the appropriate shelf, or section of shelves, and to recommend any specific book they thought would help. They won’t read the book to you, and do the work, but they would give you a starting point if they could. Then again, I have been accused, more than once, of being too nice.  
 

I’d be glad to let you “borrow the book” but unfortunately, to I don’t think I have a book on the subject that would help.  

thanks for your undertanding, , 

 

a question in general, does anyone know who first discovered the link between sacoptygerii and tetrapods in the form of the ichthyostega

[JohnJ]

Try using Google Scholar and spelling it "sarcopterygii".  

[Notidanodon]

27 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Try using Google Scholar and spelling it "sarcopterygii".  

oh i was spelling it wrong maybe thats why i couldnt find much

 

[Mediospirifer]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 11:05 AM, will stevenson said:

 Sarcopterygii-tetrapods ,

reptile to mammal,

4 legged to 2 legged

 

On the last topic, you'll want to look into primate evolution, especially the transition from monkey to ape. And, for the love of serious research, don't get suckered by the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis"!

 

Just my two cents of input to the subject. This sounds like a fun research project!

 

[Notidanodon]

13 minutes ago, Mediospirifer said:

 

On the last topic, you'll want to look into primate evolution, especially the transition from monkey to ape. And, for the love of serious research, don't get suckered by the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis"!

 

Just my two cents of input to the subject. This sounds like a fun research project!

 

Thanks, sounds great to me, did someone really call an aquatic ape serious research, thanks for your help

[Mediospirifer]

20 minutes ago, will stevenson said:

did someone really call an aquatic ape serious research

 

Someone who is not a biologist, archaeologist, or paleontologist seriously proposed that humans developed their bipedal habit during an aquatic phase of development. I've read both their ideas and the rebuttals by serious scientists, and the idea is utter crackpottery. Unfortunately, a lot of people who haven't read the rebuttals think it looks plausible, and there are websites out there dedicated to promoting it.

 

Reading all of the info (on both sides) of the disagreement can be a major time-sink. Probably best avoided until your project is done, though you might find it entertaining when you have the time.