GuineaPoliceman Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) Hi everyone. I found strange leaf. Leaf venation is unusial. Can it be somebody's wing? Length 53 mm. Russia, Chelyabinsk region. Late triassic or early jurassic. Edited August 2, 2021 by GuineaPoliceman 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Fern leaf. A carbonaceous film and guilt by association suggest. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMert Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Looks very much like a butterfly wing My sites & reports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, RuMert said: Looks very much like a butterfly wing True, but as I understand it, pollinating insects didn't arise until after flowering plants evolved - which was somewhere in the Cretaceous... From Wikipedia: Quote Some researchers theorize that butterflies most likely originated in the Cretaceous period when the continents were arrayed differently from their present positions and with climates unlike those of today. That is when the major angiosperm radiation took place. Thus, butterfly evolution must be studied throughout the elaboration and testing of phylogenetic hypotheses and through historical zoogeography. Researchers who accept a Cretaceous origin for the butterflies generally favor vicariant zoogeographic hypothesis for how the major lineages of butterflies came to be distributed over the world, whereas those who favor a Tertiary age rely on dispersalist hypotheses (Lamas, 2008). Butterfly fossils, however, appear to have only been recovered from the Eocene (ibid.). Though it's certainly a peculiar looking fern leaf, I believe @DPS Ammonite is likely right... 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMert Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Lepidopterans evolved at least in the Early Jurassic, but there are other insect orders. I wouldn't just that easily discard this thing as a leaf and consider other possibilities 1 My sites & reports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Can we see a couple of different photos, perhaps with the light on an angle instead of straight on so that some shadows can highlight the veins. It looks like there might be two different structures superimposed. I would not discount an insect wing at this point, although it's not a butterfly (Lepidopteran). Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuineaPoliceman Posted August 2, 2021 Author Share Posted August 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said: Can we see a couple of different photos, perhaps with the light on an angle instead of straight on so that some shadows can highlight the veins. It looks like there might be two different structures superimposed. I would not discount an insect wing at this point, although it's not a butterfly (Lepidopteran). Don I Will do it tomorrow morning. Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) This is definitely a wing. Not butterfly but might be some sort of Auchenorrhynchan (planthopper). The giveaway that this is insect and not plant is in the formation of discrete cells by veins which combine marginally, the wide spacing between veins, and the extremely strong asymmetry. By the way, this is a scientifically important specimen. Might be worth sending some pictures to someone at the Paleontological Institute in Moscow. I'm not sure who the correct contact there would be but I can do a little searching if you're interested. Edited August 2, 2021 by jdp 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 This morning I sent the photos to the top Russian paleoentomologist. I will post an update as soon as it becomes available. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuineaPoliceman Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Beautiful specimen the more I look the more I see, lots of plant material on the rock. Are there two different wings? If there are two are they on the same rock? “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuineaPoliceman Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Top Trilo said: Beautiful specimen the more I look the more I see, lots of plant material on the rock. Are there two different wings? If there are two are they on the same rock? There is 1 wing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 15 hours ago, piranha said: This morning I sent the photos to the top Russian paleoentomologist. I will post an update as soon as it becomes available. This is exciting! Can't wait to hear more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineR Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Have you considered a seed pod of some sort? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 The first Russian expert has not replied yet. I also sent the photos to another specialist. He requested more specific geological context and additional photos. "It is representative of family Palaeontinidae, Cicadomorpha, Hemiptera. It looks interesting, could be related with Palaeontinodes, but may be another taxon." figures from: Wang, B., Zhang, H.C., Fang, Y. 2007 Middle Jurassic Palaeontinidae (Insecta, Hemiptera) from Daohugou of China. Alavesia, 1:89-104 PDF LINK 5 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuineaPoliceman Posted August 4, 2021 Author Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) Thank you piranha. I have to go back to the rubble of the stone with the wing and try to find jurassic plants. And I have to buy a good camera. Edited August 4, 2021 by GuineaPoliceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 imho, a FOTM candidate! 3 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 16 hours ago, GuineaPoliceman said: Thank you piranha. I have to go back to the rubble of the stone with the wing and try to find jurassic plants. And I have to buy a good camera. There does appear to be some plant / leaf debris in your original photos ? MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 3 hours ago, hemipristis said: imho, a FOTM candidate! At the very leafst! 1 hour ago, Yoda said: There does appear to be some plant / leaf debris in your original photos ? Yeah, there indeed seem to be some darker coloured fern fronds and loose bits and pieces on the same rock 1 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 3 hours ago, hemipristis said: imho, a FOTM candidate! Maybe...depends on when it was found. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now