Moroccan Placoderms

[Charlotte787]

Hi Guys,

I recently purchased the placoderm below, it originates from Jebel El Mrakib, Maeder Region, of Morocco, and is dated to the early Famennian of the upper Devonian. The species is Titanichthys termeri. I was trying to do a bit more research on Moroccan placoderms but couldn’t find too much online, I was just wondering how common Placoderm fossils are to the region, any interesting facts about the species and maybe some geological context to the formation (and hopefully the fossil looks authentic – I didn’t notice anything questionable myself but please let me know if you think otherwise!). If anyone has any input that would be much appreciated!

[caterpillar]

Looks totally fake

[michele 1937]

It doesn't seem like a fake to him

[Fossildude19]

@jnoun11

[LordTrilobite]

I seem to remember this specimen being posted on the forum before.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

While I suspect some real parts may have been used to create this piece, as they often are, I agree that the overall specimen looks utterly fake. Take the anatomical details on the dextral and sinistral sides, for instance: they don't match at all - and not just due to breakage or deformation. While the last time I saw as Moroccan placoderm posted on TFF the majority sentiment also seems there have tended towards it being a fake, whereas it was probably just a bad prep-job, in this case the preservation seems to be so different,  that I'd not even consider that explanation here.

 

 

2 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

I seem to remember this specimen being posted on the forum before.

 

I agree, this specimen looks familiar, but wasn't able to find it back just now. So may be I saw it elsewhere (Paleontica, maybe, or an auction site? ).

 

In any case, the below thread may be of use here, and otherwise we'd best indeed await @jnoun11's verdict. 

 

 

 @trilo @Still_human

[Charlotte787]

Thank you for your input everyone, this has been a pretty big blunder on my part. Unfortunately I purchased another fish fossil from the same dealer, does it look authentic/fabricated? It’s an Osteostracan from Ukraine, the species is Victoriaspis longicornualis

[TeethCollector]

looks heavily restored..

Some part of this may be real but I can see the outline was carved

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

I don't think either of them really has experience with placoderms from their country, but may be @Anomotodon or @Svetlana would be able to help...

 

I, myself, have too little knowledge of and experience with placoderms, let alone Ukrainian ones, to evaluate the merit of this piece. In general, the overall shape looks okay, matching what I've seen in museums and other collections, albeit the specimen appears very worn. But I wouldn't know whether this species of placoderm is found in the Ukraine, nor what their preservation would look like if there were. The fact that the specimen looks "carved" doesn't really worry me, as this may as likely be an artifact if preparation as not, since a lot of the specimens I've seen seem to be sunken into the plane of the matrix a bit, giving their edge a "carved" look...

[Anomotodon]

On 8/26/2021 at 5:33 AM, Charlotte787 said:

Thank you for your input everyone, this has been a pretty big blunder on my part. Unfortunately I purchased another fish fossil from the same dealer, does it look authentic/fabricated? It’s an Osteostracan from Ukraine, the species is Victoriaspis longicornualis

 

As @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon mentioned, I am not very well-versed in jawless fish, but I've seen quite a lot of material from the Devonian of Ukraine and I don't see anything suspicious about this specimen. Preservation looks similar to the other fish I've seen from there. This is not a placoderm though, it's some Osteostraci which are a group of cephalaspidimorph jawless fish. Can't confirm if this is actually Victoriaspis, there are lots of cephalaspid species in that formation.

[Charlotte787]

That’s great to hear thanks guys, I wasn’t too suspicious about the Osteostracan as I had seen them posted on the form before with very similar preservation and some publications seemed to match the fossil pretty well too:

http://www.palaeontologia.pan.pl/PP66/PP66.pdf

 

 

But given the placoderm I thought some second opinions were definitely needed! Haha I’ve also included some hopefully better photos for closer scrutiny of the fossil:

[Praefectus]

On 8/26/2021 at 6:33 AM, Charlotte787 said:

Thank you for your input everyone, this has been a pretty big blunder on my part. Unfortunately I purchased another fish fossil from the same dealer, does it look authentic/fabricated? It’s an Osteostracan from Ukraine, the species is Victoriaspis longicornualis

Wow. That is a nice one. Really good definition and detail. 

[Kikokuryu]

On 8/26/2021 at 3:33 AM, Charlotte787 said:

Thank you for your input everyone, this has been a pretty big blunder on my part. Unfortunately I purchased another fish fossil from the same dealer, does it look authentic/fabricated? It’s an Osteostracan from Ukraine, the species is Victoriaspis longicornualis

Nothing seems out of place IMO. I know the head shields of Osteostracans and Pteraspidids from Ukraine are not super rare, so they probably don't warrant really excessive restorations. I think (not 100% sure) new material is still being dug up and being offered online. You sometimes get multiple genera in one mortality plate.

[Haravex]

I believe the last one to be completely real a very good friend of mine there finds a good number of placoderms and other material from that time, I even have a few shark teeth from him.

[Anomotodon]

5 hours ago, Haravex said:

I believe the last one to be completely real a very good friend of mine there finds a good number of placoderms and other material from that time, I even have a few shark teeth from him.

 

You mean Devonian shark teeth?? This is really cool, I haven't seen any from Ukraine