Dino Dad 81 Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Happy Sunday! I got this tooth a while back and figured I'd follow up my recent Troodon premax tooth ID post with it. It's 6mm long and is from the Judith River formation in Hill county, Montana. I ran it by @Troodon back when I was considering buying it and he thought it was a patho Troodon premax, but that was before I had good pictures of it. Please let me know if these also support that identification. Thank you! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Very weird tooth. It looks like a Troodon but not pre-max. Typical to see an unserrated mesial carina. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 As a guy who has collected hundreds (if not thousands) of small Lance and Hell Creek Fm microfossils under the microscope, given its very hollow base, and its one sided denticles, I think this is a modern beetle 'mandible'. Quite common in anthills and maybe less so in actual microsite diggings. I wish I knew more about which kind of beetle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Dad 81 Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, jpc said: As a guy who has collected hundreds (if not thousands) of small Lance and Hell Creek Fm microfossils under the microscope, given its very hollow base, and its one sided denticles, I think this is a modern beetle 'mandible'. Quite common in anthills and maybe less so in actual microsite diggings. I wish I knew more about which kind of beetle. @jpc, perhaps this will help with respect to hollow.. When it was found, part of the base was cracked and I feared the uncracked side would crack too, so I sent it to get stabilized. But when it cam to me, it wasn't so hollow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Interesting its a very different tooth and cool if it is. l What size beetle has that size teeth? Incisor's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AranHao Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Very beautiful teeth with galactic color. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I stand corrected... I did not see the 6mm size. (Read more carefully, JP). And I appreciate the later comments about its hollowness. In other words... What a strange a very cool tooth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I agree that it doesn't look like Troodon. But the preservation (fracturing, 'luminosity') leads me away from any insect part. I do think it's a tooth, but I have not I idea what it could be from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 It's it possible to be an early form of Pectinodon? Anecdotally they have been reported from JRF deposits Suggest you ask Phil Currie and get his opinion HC Pectinodon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 23 hours ago, Troodon said: It's it possible to be an early form of Pectinodon? Anecdotally they have been reported from JRF deposits Suggest you ask Phil Currie and get his opinion HC Pectinodon That's more like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Dad 81 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 I wrote to Phil Currie and heard back! Because the exchange was a bit puzzling, I've show my message to him as well: My message: Hi Dr. Currie, If you have a chance, I’d be honored to get your opinion on the tooth in the attached pictures. It’s from 6cm CH and is from the Judith River formation in Hill County, Montana. Let me know if there’s anything else that would help. I’m happy to try to give a better view of anything you want. Thank you so much! Best Regards, Cory _____________ His response: Surely you mean 6mm rather than 6cm!?! Even so, it is a pretty incredible-looking tooth, and my best guess is that if it is 6mm it is maybe from a pachycephalosaur. If it is 6cm, however, then all bets are off and I hardly know where to begin to guess. I will attach a paper we recently did that might help. Cheers, Phil Hudgins EtAl 2021.pdf _____________ My follow up: Hi Dr. Currie, I read the paper you sent—thanks so much for that. I noticed that there still hasn’t been any pachycephalosaur material found in the Judith River formation, so I just want to make sure your pachycephalosaur suspicion took into account that this strange tooth was found in the Judith River formation of Hill County, Montana. Do you think it’s possible that it’s a pathological troodon/pectinodon tooth? Best Regards, Cory ____________ He hasn't responded. What do you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Dad 81 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 @Troodon @Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Well if he cannot put a name to it who can. I've seen that paper and cannot ascribed any of those described to your tooth. Pachycephalosaur material has been found in the JRF but nothing has been described. Hey I have a couple of domes from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Dad 81 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 He certainly doesn't sound confident. I really hope he responds with confirmation that he noted the location--I don't see anything in that paper that remotely resembles it. But, hey, @Troodon, at least you see I play fair and honest--regardless of what my hopes are for a given specimen. I always just want the right ID and won't hesitate to spoil my own party if I get information elsewhere that's not what I want to hear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) I think we should just call it a dinosaur egg and be done with it. But seriously, It could be some sort of undescribed pachy tooth as well. Tough call. But then there are a lot of little things found in these microsites that we just don't know what they are. Edited December 14, 2022 by jpc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Dad 81 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 He replied!: "Hi Cory. There is lots of pachycephalosaur material found in the Judith River, although much has not been described. And the serrations on your specimen are definitely not from a troodon/pectinodon type tooth, so I doubt that it is pathological. Cool tooth, even if we can’t pin it down. Cheers, Phil" 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 17 hours ago, Dino Dad 81 said: He certainly doesn't sound confident. I really hope he responds with confirmation that he noted the location--I don't see anything in that paper that remotely resembles it. But, hey, @Troodon, at least you see I play fair and honest--regardless of what my hopes are for a given specimen. I always just want the right ID and won't hesitate to spoil my own party if I get information elsewhere that's not what I want to hear. BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Dad 81 Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 When I PM'ed a TFF member about this tooth back in May when I bought it, I said: "I'm hoping this might be troodon/pectinodon (from Judith), but the denticles may be pointing too straight up. The fluting is interesting. Perhaps a premax? I don't know ank teeth very well, but the leafy shape almost seems like a broken-in-half ank or pachy (but I don't know about pachy in JR)..." I'm on my way to getting promoted from white belt to yellow belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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