luvmymushpups Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 last week I had a cool find...with help from this forum we identified it as part of the lower jaw of a bison. I live in the interior of Alaska. wood bison use to live here but became nearly extinct 200 years ago. although in 2016 they did release a small herd back into the wild near bethel. also, there is a sandbar a few miles upriver that they have been digging. we had a flood that took out 20-50 feet of riverbank and the river is still receding. I returned to the spot that I found the first bone in yesterday and at the water's edge found an old animal vertebrae, when I checked today, I found two more vertebra and what i think is the second part of the jawbone. the vertabraes all fit together. i am heading back will post better pictures later 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Very cool, The one closest to your hand in the pic is the atlas, from directly behind the skull. The axis, nr. 2, is missing though. They do look bovid, they have the same colour, looks like there may be more. Only question is, Bison or cattle, because from these pics they do not look that strongly mineralized to me. That argument works only in one direction though: if they are mineralized, you know they are not cattle, if they are not, they could still be Bison. Is there any smell left? Is there any smell when you put a lighter to a dry part of the bone? Is there any grease? Are they still heavy after drying? I doubt if a few vertebrae and jaw fragments have enough diagnostic features to tell Bison from cattle, but if there are, @Harry Pristis may know. Teeth would be great to answer that question, and the chances of finding some may be good, you are at the right end of the animal. Best regards, J 4 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvmymushpups Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 they were found along the Yukon River in remote Alaska, off of the road system near the Innoko wildlife refuge. I will do those tests tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvmymushpups Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 9 hours ago, luvmymushpups said: they were found along the Yukon River in remote Alaska, off of the road system near the Innoko wildlife refuge. I will do those tests tomorrow. to continue...the area that they were found in is remote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvmymushpups Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 Just now, luvmymushpups said: to continue...the area that they were found in is remote area near a small village of less then 200 people. wood bison use to live here 100ish and i was told that the university does archeologic digs at a sandbar up the river several miles and has found bison bones. whooly mamoth is also a frequent find in the region. the lifestyle here is subsistence and to my knowledge noone has ever had cattle here. we had a flood in may that took out 20-50 feet of river bank in the area. the water is still receding and uncovering new things. (i hve found some cool bottles also) i will be going back to the river soon and hope to find some more bones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 1 hour ago, luvmymushpups said: to continue...the area that they were found in is remote Bovid in central Alaska.... either bison or musk ox. I think cow can be eliminated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Context is everything... I think we can eliminate the musk ox by the shape of the coronoid process again (Just looked up pictures of musk ox jaws. ) You got yourself a Bison. Best Regards, J 2 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Mahnmut said: Context is everything... I think we can eliminate the musk ox by the shape of the coronoid process again (Just looked up pictures of musk ox jaws. ) You got yourself a Bison. Best Regards, J nice work, mahnmut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvmymushpups Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 I went out again to the same area and found some teeth and maybe a rib and legbone, but they could also be from moose that are hunted here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvmymushpups Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Arrgh. Thanks for the praise, but I just begin to doubt my own reasoning. It seemed that the coronoid process of Bison and Moose was quite distinctly different by the references given in this post http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/135302-help-with-id-bone-or-antler-i-think-it-is-mineralized/. Using the following reference though, moose looks much more similar again, so I have to admit to myself and you fellow forum members that the morphology I based my reasoning upon seems to be quite variable between individuals: https://virtual.imnh.iri.isu.edu/Osteo/View/Moose/645 The tooth will tell the truth, but I am not the one to gauge it. Sorry, J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvmymushpups Posted August 4, 2023 Author Share Posted August 4, 2023 On 8/3/2023 at 12:14 AM, Mahnmut said: Arrgh. Thanks for the praise, but I just begin to doubt my own reasoning. It seemed that the coronoid process of Bison and Moose was quite distinctly different by the references given in this post http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/135302-help-with-id-bone-or-antler-i-think-it-is-mineralized/. Using the following reference though, moose looks much more similar again, so I have to admit to myself and you fellow forum members that the morphology I based my reasoning upon seems to be quite variable between individuals: https://virtual.imnh.iri.isu.edu/Osteo/View/Moose/645 The tooth will tell the truth, but I am not the one to gauge it. Sorry, J I think I have more then one animal going on....the vertebrae's have defiantly been confirmed as bison. the tooth looks like moose i think and was found a few yards down river. everyone here hunts moose and moose bone is all over the bank and yards and trails and roads from hunting as well as live moose. im confused with the other bones maybe they need to be looked at seperatly. The upper jaw bone was found within 3 feet of the vertbra so not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 12 hours ago, luvmymushpups said: I think I have more then one animal going on....the vertebrae's have defiantly been confirmed as bison. the tooth looks like moose i think and was found a few yards down river. everyone here hunts moose and moose bone is all over the bank and yards and trails and roads from hunting as well as live moose. im confused with the other bones maybe they need to be looked at seperatly. The upper jaw bone was found within 3 feet of the vertbra so not sure Thats of course possible, but with the front end of the neck, back end of the skull within 3 feet, no doubles so far and all of very similar colour at least the chances are high they are associated. Although I start to lean towards moose, I do not dare to make another confident statement beyond artiodactyl. You can compare the atlas and other vertebrae to the ones depicted here aswell as the jaw parts. https://virtual.imnh.iri.isu.edu/Osteo/View/Moose/645. I just had to withdraw my overconfident statement that it is a bovid after realizing how variable the shapes I based my opinion on are between individuals. After reading up on it I could not find any information about the variablity of the coronoid process other than that its variable in shape and size in humans. No idea if its age related, sexual dimorphism or just high random variability, Its just a sad truth that trying to distinguish between moose and Bison by that feature turned out to be an embarrassingly bad idea. I wonder how many fossil species have been named for variable features where the sample sizes are low. In my corner of the world its worth a newspaper headline when a moose crosses the border from Scandinavia by the way. Best Regards, J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now