Psittacosaur9's Cabinet Renovation Fossil Identification - Mesozoic and Cenozoic Animals Thread

[Psittacosaur9]

Hello everyone, and I hope you've all had a good day.

 

I started to put my display cabinet together today, and after an exhausting day of work, I'm only half done and I haven't even started on the bookshelf! Yay!

 

Sarcasm aside, I've got some more fossils I would like identified, as I am creating labels for my displays. Just as before, I would prefer the most specific identification possible - species would be preferable, but I would rather a genus or clade name over an invalid species name. Location would be helpful too. Again, if any of you want them, I can take more photos tomorrow.

 

 

Specimen 1: Actinopterygii

 

This specimen I purchased at a museum, which simply labelled it as 'fish fossil'. While I do not know the location, I suspected it was from the Green River Formation in Wyoming, as many commercially available Actinopterygii fossils come from that site. At first, I thought the specimen was Knightia, as that fish seems to be one of the more common from the Green River Formation, and the only common one of the same size and rough shape. However, after recently observing a slab of Knightia at a museum, I began to doubt my initial identification, as the Knightia in the museum looked more bloated than my specimen. Is it a Knightia, or something else?

 

Specimen 2: Ammonite

 

I apologise for the rather shoddy attempt at editing out the supplier's logo. As you can see, I purchased this ammonite in a small plastic case at a museum, and cannot take a photograph of it from all angles. However, the back of the box (or at least what survives of it) says that the ammonite is Jurassic of age and comes from Madagascar (thinking about it, the supplier probably had to stick the ammonite to the case in order to get it through customs). Therefore, after comparing it to other ammonites from the same location, I believe it is most likely a Phylloceras specimen, as those ammonites lived in the correct place at the correct time, and had the same shaped, relatively smooth shell. Do you all agree with this conclusion?

 

Specimen 3: Gastropod

 

Another specimen I purchased from a museum with no knowledge of its original location or age. Unfortunately, I know very little about Gastropods, so I do not know how to identify it. Do any of you recognise at least what group it came from, or even tell its species, time period or location?

 

Specimen 4: Ray tooth

 

I received this tooth as a gift in a set of various teeth from Chondrichthyes. The gift set identified the ray tooth as Jurassic in age, however gave no further information on the specimen. To add to the confusion, all of the fossil ray teeth I have found available to purchase online come from Myliobatis, a genus which only evolved in the Cenozoic. While I am pretty sure it is Myliobatis and the gift set's information was simply inaccurate, I would like confirmation that this conclusion is accurate. Also, I do know that there is only half of a tooth; it broke a while ago and I no longer have the second half.

 

Thank you for all of your help! Next up will be a couple of Triassic plant fossils, and following that will be some fossils I am concerned are fake. Hope you all have a good night!

[Ludwigia]

Your fish could be a common Leptolepis sprattiformis from Solnhofen. The ammonite is perhaps a Perisphinctes and the gastropod maybe a Neptunea. Sorry I can't help with the ray.

[Psittacosaur9]

1 hour ago, Ludwigia said:

Your fish could be a common Leptolepis sprattiformis from Solnhofen. The ammonite is perhaps a Perisphinctes and the gastropod maybe a Neptunea. Sorry I can't help with the ray.

Thanks for the response! I'll wait for other people to respond to update my labels, as you seem somewhat unsure and I'd like multiple perspectives, but it would be great if the fish was a Solnhofen specimen, as I've wanted a fossil from that location for some time and it would be pretty ironic if I have had one in my collection for years. I'm not 100% convinced, as most Leptolepis specimens seem to have curved spines whereas mine has a straight spine, but their body shapes still look similar. I'm not as sure about the identification of the ammonite as Perispinctes, as that ammonite has a smaller opening for the body chamber and a more ribbed shell than my specimen (see comparison images, my specimen is above the Perispinctes). The Gastropod does definitely look like a Neptunea, although as I admitted earlier I know very little about Gastropods and mostly picked up the fossil as its preservation was incredible for the rather low price. If other people also agree with these conclusion I will update the labels accordingly. No worries about the ray. In any case, thanks for your time and hope you have a good day.

[Coco]

I can not help you, but it would be nice if you put each photo under the text that concerns it, because your text is very long and if you want to see the photo in question you are forced to scroll vertically and after, you do not know where you are in the reading

 

Coco

[Psittacosaur9]

51 minutes ago, Coco said:

I can not help you, but it would be nice if you put each photo under the text that concerns it, because your text is very long and if you want to see the photo in question you are forced to scroll vertically and after, you do not know where you are in the reading

 

Coco

Ok, I'll do that in the next thread.

[Isotelus2883]

6 hours ago, Ludwigia said:

Leptolepis sprattiformis

The matrix looks more like Liaoning material. I suggest Lycoptera davidi that has been painted over.

[Fossildude19]

 

1 hour ago, Isotelus2883 said:

The matrix looks more like Liaoning material. I suggest Lycoptera davidi that has been painted over.

 

7 hours ago, Ludwigia said:

Your fish could be a common Leptolepis sprattiformis from Solnhofen. The ammonite is perhaps a Perisphinctes and the gastropod maybe a Neptunea. Sorry I can't help with the ray.

 

 

 

 

The fish is actually a Knightia eocaena from the Green River formation,  Wyoming.

The fins are all wrong for Lycoptera.

 

Cropped, brightened, and contrasted:

 

[Randyw]

I'm with @Fossildude19 it's a knightia eocaena from the grf. I've prepped a few dozen of them in the last couple months.

[Isotelus2883]

Sorry. the painted head shape threw me off.

[Psittacosaur9]

Thanks for the responses. I will label the fish as Knightia eocaena, as I think it is the closest match. Also, does anyone have any further identifications for the ray, Gastropod or Ammonite?

4 hours ago, Isotelus2883 said:

Sorry. the painted head shape threw me off.

Is the head painted over?

[Fossildude19]

1 hour ago, Psittacosaur9 said:

Thanks for the responses. I will label the fish as Knightia eocaena, as I think it is the closest match. Also, does anyone have any further identifications for the ray, Gastropod or Ammonite?

Is the head painted over?

 

The whole thing may have been painted. Very difficult to say for sure, from the poor quality pics.

It is a common practice on fish from there, unfortunately.

[Psittacosaur9]

2 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

The whole thing may have been painted. Very difficult to say for sure, from the poor quality pics.

It is a common practice on fish from there, unfortunately.

I just went and looked at the fossil again. It definitely looks real; there is depth, with the vertebrae and skull coming out of the matrix (it would be difficult to capture in a photograph as my phone's macrophotography feature is terrible), and there are a few remnants from other fish on the plate (circled in blue in the image). However, on close inspection, it does look like the Knightia has been at least somewhat painted over; especially seeing the strange blob on the underside of the fish which I have circled in red. It is a pity. I am starting to notice a pattern with various fossils from this same supplier which have been modified or damaged, so I probably will avoid purchasing more fossils from them. Anyways, thanks for the information. Also, what camera would you recommend for taking photographs? My phone's camera isn't great, and I do have an old SLR camera I could use.

[Randyw]

Oh yes. It’s definetly real. It’s just been enhanced with stain of some kind. When I blow it up I can see a few spots where the stain overlaps the sides of the fish. Kind of like coloring outside the lines. Overall it’s a nice looking fish though even with the stain. There are two camps on staining fish those that like it and those that don’t. There are also cases where people will use a preservative like paraloid on them to protect them and it will occasionally darken the fish and or matrix around the fish… I do think this was painted/stained though. I’d put it in my collection and be happy with it even so.

[Psittacosaur9]

2 hours ago, Randyw said:

Oh yes. It’s definetly real. It’s just been enhanced with stain of some kind. When I blow it up I can see a few spots where the stain overlaps the sides of the fish. Kind of like coloring outside the lines. Overall it’s a nice looking fish though even with the stain. There are two camps on staining fish those that like it and those that don’t. There are also cases where people will use a preservative like paraloid on them to protect them and it will occasionally darken the fish and or matrix around the fish… I do think this was painted/stained though. I’d put it in my collection and be happy with it even so.

Ok thanks for the reassurance. Also, I heard that you have prepared specimens of Knightia. What's that like?

[Randyw]

LOL! Very mixed. There’s different layers in the grf depending on where they came from they can be extremely flaky to super easy to nightmare to prep. They can be everything from perfect to decayed and exploded. I’ve done or in the process of doing around 100+.  I mainly do knightia ( both varieties), cockeralites. And Diplomystus, from the grf. @Ptychodus04 does about 100 times my volume though. A few of them below…..

Edited October 7, 2023 by Randyw

[Psittacosaur9]

52 minutes ago, Randyw said:

LOL! Very mixed. There’s different layers in the grf depending on where they came from they can be extremely flaky to super easy to nightmare to prep. They can be everything from perfect to decayed and exploded. I’ve done or in the process of doing around 100+.  I mainly do knightia ( both varieties), cockeralites. And Diplomystus, from the grf. @Ptychodus04 does about 100 times my volume though. A few of them below…..

Oh wow, good job! The final fossils look very attractive. Also, I find it interesting how a single fossil site can have such varied preparation difficulties.

[SPrice]

The varied preparation difficulties come from the varying layers from which the fish are found plus another factor may be if the fish died and sank in the shallow waters or deeper waters.  The layers are normally called the "split fish, sandwich and 18" layers".  The top two layers are the challenging ones to prep. The 18" layer has a slightly different mineral/chemical content. More keratin in the fossils which makes them firmer, better preserved and deeper chocolate coloring. None of mine are from that layer.  Mine are the flakey version.  Sneeze once, ACHOO! ...hey where'd my fish go?

 

 Lot's more flakey fish out there which need a little cosmetic work. A little staining, ink drawing in missing parts,  voila! nice fish! 

 

I know the quarry from where Randy's fish came and it wasn't either of the two I visited. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by SPrice

[Randyw]

These were mainly sandwich bed and 18” layer. From kennemer (I know I spelled that wrong LOL but it’s after midnight and I get up in 4 hours for work so my brain not spinning great right now LOL!) I’ve thought about staining some but never really got into doing that on pieces I prep. I prefer more the natural look for my own prepped pieces. And before I started prepping I would get both enhanced and unenhanced samples. And the piece the o.p. Posted was done pretty nicely.

[Psittacosaur9]

51 minutes ago, SPrice said:

The varied preparation difficulties come from the varying layers from which the fish are found plus another factor may be if the fish died and sank in the shallow waters or deeper waters.  The layers are normally called the "split fish, sandwich and 18" layers".  The top two layers are the challenging ones to prep. The 18" layer has a slightly different mineral/chemical content. More keratin in the fossils which makes them firmer, better preserved and deeper chocolate coloring. None of mine are from that layer.  Mine are the flakey version.  Sneeze once, ACHOO! ...hey where'd my fish go?

 

 Lot's more flakey fish out there which need a little cosmetic work. A little staining, ink drawing in missing parts,  voila! nice fish! 

 

I know the quarry from where Randy's fish came and it wasn't either of the two I visited. 

That's a good explanation for the paint. Would my fish be from the flakey layer?

 

18 minutes ago, Randyw said:

These were mainly sandwich bed and 18” layer. From kennemer (I know I spelled that wrong LOL but it’s after midnight and I get up in 4 hours for work so my brain not spinning great right now LOL!) I’ve thought about staining some but never really got into doing that on pieces I prep. I prefer more the natural look for my own prepped pieces. And before I started prepping I would get both enhanced and unenhanced samples. And the piece the o.p. Posted was done pretty nicely.

Yeah, I prefer the natural look too, but the painted fossils are still good. Also, what do you plan to do with all of the prepped fossils?

[Randyw]

I’ve drawn up plans for a new set of shelves to build that should hold about 100….

[Psittacosaur9]

21 hours ago, Randyw said:

I’ve drawn up plans for a new set of shelves to build that should hold about 100….

Hope that goes well!

[Psittacosaur9]

Update: I was able to contact the museum I bought the gastropod; they stated it was about 150 million years old but did not know exactly what species it was, and that I should contact their supplier. I'll try to contact them when I get the chance, but the supplier's website seems to be defunct and has not been updated since 2012 so I do not know how that will go.