Heartbreakers

[Shellseeker]

Out hunting today,  and that's a good thing. My primary exercise is Fossil Hunting and it is strenuous for me. I need to hunt twice a week to stay in reasonable shape but for the month of September, I was out hunting 5 times.

The "special" finds are always more exciting but today there were not many combined with finding fewer small shark teeth than previous outings..

In the last 90 minutes, we decided to visit previously fruitful locations, each filling a sieve and moving on if nothing special was showing up. With 30 minutes to go, along with 7 small shark teeth, 2 dermal denticles, and a couple of sawfish rostral teeth, out pops a pretty nice Meg.  At first I thought unbroken,  but definitely a heartbreaker..

Great fat root, nice serrations. Even broken , this is special...

 

2nd last sieve, a tridactyl horse upper molar,  slightly distressed and possibly identifiable. I think it is likely Nannippus, but I will be trying to ID species.

 

Great day. No rain,  slightly cooler and found a couple of specials and Zolfo USGS gauge coming down.  I hope to get back to Peace River hunting late next week.

[grandpa]

Perspective, perspective.  Those would be heart-leapers had I found them.

[SPrice]

And I have seen some amazing restorations on Meg teeth. That would be my path were I to find such a tooth.

[RJB]

 Hi Jack.  Yeah, a heart breaker for sure.  I'm also sure that most of us fossil hunters have been heart broken at some time or another for whatever kind of fossil/s we are after.   Just keep gettin out there and best of luck

 

RB

[Shellseeker]

9 hours ago, grandpa said:

Perspective, perspective.  Those would be heart-leapers had I found them.

Thank you.. I have been incredibly blessed in this fossil hunting hobby and sometime I do not fully appreciate the magic that happens almost on a daily basis. It is good to be brought back to reality. 

I have gone fossil hunting twice this week to a 10 mya site and returned with treasures that few have handled and fewer still have found. I am living the dream.

[Shellseeker]

12 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

2nd last sieve, a tridactyl horse upper molar,  slightly distressed and possibly identifiable. I think it is likely Nannippus, but I will be trying to ID species.

A couple of possibilities...

xx

I am thinking a right upper molar, similar to M12.. probably not N. morgani because the measurements are too large...

Here is another candidate.... This is likely N. westoni or N. aztecus and it "fits" pretty well to my imagined time frame and size.  Clarendonian was 9-12 mya.

Here is a side by side I have been looking at... @fossillarry

 

This is hard to see details that might differentiate,  so I might have to settle for Nannippus .sp, but in my mind I'll be thinking N. westoni.  

[Balance]

Figure “F”, Nannippus Morgani  is the drawing that the example specimen is referring to? 
 

if so this is pretty specific with these tiny squiggles in the tooth.  Yes? 
 

[Shellseeker]

38 minutes ago, Balance said:

Figure “F”, Nannippus Morgani  is the drawing that the example specimen is referring to? 

if so this is pretty specific with these tiny squiggles in the tooth.  Yes? 

No, 

I provided the 1/2 page on N. morgani as a indicator of how complex identifying the species of Nannippus when you make a find.. with morgani the length and width of the chewing surface is the determinant  factor rather than the similarity of of the squiggles.

 

Here is a research paper that provided a lot of background info:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254313835_Late_Miocene_Nannippus_Mammalia_Perissodactyla_from_Florida_with_a_description_of_the_smallest_Hipparionine_horse

 

Here is a thread with input from experts (Hulbert and Fossillarry) on identification of a Nannippus species.  There are 6 or 7 species depending on how you count.

 

The one I compared to came from this website of University of Florida Museum of Natural History about Florida Clarendonian fauna. 

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/land-mammal-ages/clarendonian/

 

One thing I am fairly sure of is that neither my find or the photo from the above website are Nannippus morgani despite the close resemblance. 

[Balance]

First: thanks for taking time to give me all this info. 
 

Second: Holy smokes! All this info!! Gotta get a copy of the book about Florida land fossils mentioned in that thread. Tried reading the paper on my phone. Terrible idea. Eyes might be ruined for today. Later…    Home…  
 

currently, 85% (ok fine 95%) of this info is like a different language but I’m genuinely interested and I don’t know how many ADHD people you know but genuine interest is the switch that turns on hyper focus. Hyper focus put people on the moon. It’s a powerful thing.
 

I’ve got a decent pile of horse, camel, bison, who knows, teeth and I’m about to start figuring out who belongs to who!!!!!  
 

thanks, Jack!

[Family Fun]

Jack,

 

both the meg and horse tooth are amazing.  Always love to see what you find.  Now that I’m not on Florida any longer, I live my Peace River experiences from what you post, and always love every word. 
 

Rick

[Shellseeker]

41 minutes ago, Balance said:

I’ve got a decent pile of horse, camel, bison, who knows, teeth and I’m about to start figuring out who belongs to who!!!!!  

You have choices,  same as I did,  same as everyone does. You can choose to increase your knowledge about any specific Genus or species that grabs your interest. My pockets of knowledge are all related to Florida species:  marine mammals, sloth, small horses.   In 2015,  I found my 1st small horse tooth, an upper tooth of Nannippus peninsulatus.  I was enchanted, tried to find out everything I could about that species. I would read research papers,  search the Internet and older threads on this forum for any new insights. I also identified experts like Richard Hulbert and FossilLarry who displayed amazing knowledge on small horses. Richard provided a service in Florida to identify fossils found in Florida. and Richard was the author or co_author of many research papers on small horses in Florida. 

I sent him most of my finds and I would forced myself , on minimal knowledge, to guess at an identification. Many believe that being wrong on an ID should be an embarrassment. I always thought that being incorrect on a Fossil ID was part of my personal path to eventually getting it right and certainly insured that I was involved in the conversations.  When I started , Richard would correct my false identifications 95% of the time and tell me why .... 

I am not nearly that poor in correctly identifying small horse teeth any more. 

[Rock Hound]

Giant Megs are always interesting, even when broken.  They are proof, of the great beast's existence in the recent past.  Congratulations!!!

[fossillarry]

Hi Jack.        I always look forwards to your posts because they just about always requires me to do an literature and specimen search.  Your little horse tooth is probably N. westoni, even tough the hypoconal groove is very shallow and small  for this species (I checked Dr. Hulberts' paper on this species to see what is the size range for this species ).  If as I think you imply your fossil locality is ten million years old (Late Clarendonian) this would be the right age for N. weston and a little early for N. aztecus.  The little tooth is certainly not N, new sp., I have a dozen or so upper teeth of this sp., one of which I showed to Dr. Hulbert who agreed with my ID, and they much larger and shorter crowned then most species of Nannippus.  The horse tooth from Texas that I identified as Cormohipparion could be N. new sp. but because of the plications in the pliprefossette ( lacking in N, new sp.) I still think it's Cormohipparion.  Lastly it is not N. morgani,  which is much smaller even this small tooth.  I had a few teeth of this very small species and they are quite different then your tooth.

[Shellseeker]

48 minutes ago, fossillarry said:

Hi Jack.        I always look forwards to your posts because they just about always requires me to do an literature and specimen search.  Your little horse tooth is probably N. westoni, even tough the hypoconal groove is very shallow and small  for this species (I checked Dr. Hulberts' paper on this species to see what is the size range for this species ).  If as I think you imply your fossil locality is ten million years old (Late Clarendonian) this would be the right age for N. weston and a little early for N. aztecus.  The little tooth is certainly not N, new sp., I have a dozen or so upper teeth of this sp., one of which I showed to Dr. Hulbert who agreed with my ID, and they much larger and shorter crowned then most species of Nannippus.  The horse tooth from Texas that I identified as Cormohipparion could be N. new sp. but because of the plications in the pliprefossette ( lacking in N, new sp.) I still think it's Cormohipparion.  Lastly it is not N. morgani,  which is much smaller even this small tooth.  I had a few teeth of this very small species and they are quite different then your tooth.

Larry, 

I equally look forward to your evaluations because I always learn something. and the same way you do. a literature and specimen search. I can always wish for more but I have exactly one location that produces Late Miocene fossils and a different location that produces Late Pliocene fossils (No Megs, a few Great Whites, N. peninsulatus). The Miocene site mostly produces Shark Teeth with a few land mammals. My normal hunting trip is 250 marine fossils and 2 or 3 land mammal fossils. The single most common land mammal fossils are N. aztecus teeth.  Next in line is Teleoceras proterum. So using those 2 species, I started describing this as a 10 mya site. Later I found some Rynchotherium tusks and a single Borophagus tooth.  Richard Hulbert identified 1 Nannippus westoni and NO Nannippus peninsulatus.

 

I wonder if @digit can find out which Nannippus species have been found at Montbrook.  

 

The Montbrook site has been dated by the presence of specific fauna:

Quote

Age

• Latest Miocene or earliest Pliocene epochs; late Hemphillian (Hemphillian 4 interval) land mammal age
• About 5.5 to 5 million years old (estimated)

Basis of Age

Vertebrate biochronology. A latest Hemphillian (Hh4) age is indicated by co-occurrence of the rhino Teleoceros, the gomphothere Rhynchotherium, and the canid Borophagus hilli.

I may have to adjust the likely age of my Miocene site based on the presence or absence of N. aztecus fossils. 

 

Thanks for your response  Jack