Huge excitement! But what is it

[Brian James Maguire]

[mr.cheese]

I would say an Orthoceras or Orthocone.

 

A type of squid with a solid shell about 450 MYO if it is one of these that is, I sell them in my shop from Morocco.

 

Await others though as I could be wrong!

[Brian James Maguire]

@mr.cheese i was hoping it would be one , i have a lot of fossils now from ireland but i never found an irish one

[mr.cheese]

I could be wrong so wait for someone else to confirm first! Good find though whatever the result!

[Ludwigia]

Yes, it's definitely a straight-shelled nautiloid, but likely not Orthoceras, although one could still call it an orthoconic nautiloid in layman's terms. See the following link. Sorry I can't help further with the id, but perhaps someone like @TqB might have a suggestion. Very nice sample by the way.

[mr.cheese]

interesting, I didn't realise Moroccan ones are not Orthoceras but the link and the other worm holes you can go down from it don't give light to what they are known as also not help for posters id either!

I am invested now!

[Tidgy's Dad]

53 minutes ago, Brian James Maguire said:

@mr.cheese i was hoping it would be one , i have a lot of fossils now from ireland but i never found an irish one

This is a beautiful example of an Early Carboniferous orthoconic nautiloid.

[Tidgy's Dad]

@mr.cheese

An update on the "Orthoceras marble" :

 

 I've been doing some more research and chatting on and off for the last couple of years and have some updated information ;

This black limestone with orthocerids is properly called "The Temperoceras Limestone" or more formally the Filon Douze-Tafilet Bed, Tempoceras Limestone Section. Filon 12 is a series of mineral mines near the mountains of Taouz, but the beds outcrop for many kilometres heading north to the area around Tafilet between Erfoud and Rissani. and are extensively quarried near  Hassi Tachbit, east of Rissani, as I thought. The material is often then transported and sold to the folks in Erfoud for prepping, polishing and resale. The age is Lowermost Ludfordian, Upper Ludlow, so about 425 million years old. 

The orthocones found in this black rock include : 

Hemicosmoceras semibricatum,

Kionoceras doricum, criss-crossed ridges on shell exterior Can't be seen on polished specimens, of course. But it's slightly curved and can have swollen areas along the length. 

Kopaninoceras dorsatoides 

Kopaninoceras thyrsus

Temperoceras ludense By far the most common species. It is a member of the family Geisonoceratidae. as I thought. 

Plagiostomoceras pleurotomum  Long and thin, ridged.

Plagiostomoceras culter Long, thin and smooth. 

Parasphaerorthoceras sp. 

Sphooceras truncatum Short, fat and rounded at the posterior end. 

And rarely : 

Arionoceras canonicum

Subormoceras sp. 

Michelinoceras sp.

 

So most of those available in shops and online will probably be Temperoceras ludense. 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Tidgy's Dad

[Brian James Maguire]

@Tidgy's Dad thank you so much im delighted to have found it

[Brian James Maguire]

@Tidgy's Dad any ideas at all what type of orthoconic nautiloid this might be?

[mr.cheese]

10 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

@mr.cheese

An update on the "Orthoceras marble" :

 

 I've been doing some more research and chatting on and off for the last couple of years and have some updated information ;

This black limestone with orthocerids is properly called "The Temperoceras Limestone" or more formally the Filon Douze-Tafilet Bed, Tempoceras Limestone Section. Filon 12 is a series of mineral mines near the mountains of Taouz, but the beds outcrop for many kilometres heading north to the area around Tafilet between Erfoud and Rissani. and are extensively quarried near  Hassi Tachbit, east of Rissani, as I thought. The material is often then transported and sold to the folks in Erfoud for prepping, polishing and resale. The age is Lowermost Ludfordian, Upper Ludlow, so about 425 million years old. 

The orthocones found in this black rock include : 

Hemicosmoceras semibricatum,

Kionoceras doricum, criss-crossed ridges on shell exterior Can't be seen on polished specimens, of course. But it's slightly curved and can have swollen areas along the length. 

Kopaninoceras dorsatoides 

Kopaninoceras thyrsus

Temperoceras ludense By far the most common species. It is a member of the family Geisonoceratidae. as I thought. 

Plagiostomoceras pleurotomum  Long and thin, ridged.

Plagiostomoceras culter Long, thin and smooth. 

Parasphaerorthoceras sp. 

Sphooceras truncatum Short, fat and rounded at the posterior end. 

And rarely : 

Arionoceras canonicum

Subormoceras sp. 

Michelinoceras sp.

 

So most of those available in shops and online will probably be Temperoceras ludense. 

 

You have gone above and beyond there @Tidgy's Dadthank you very much. I have been selling people a lie for the last five years! I will correct my signs and then learn to not call them Orthoceras!

[Tidgy's Dad]

8 minutes ago, mr.cheese said:

You have gone above and beyond there @Tidgy's Dadthank you very much. I have been selling people a lie for the last five years! I will correct my signs and then learn to not call them Orthoceras!

Virtually everyone calls them Orthoceras, old habits die hard.

If you have any that are in a black limestone, but from the Moroccan Sahara then, they are different again.

Then there are those in the brownish limestone with goniatites that are Late Devonian and again different genera and species.

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Tidgy's Dad

[mr.cheese]

4 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Virtually everyone calls them Orthoceras, old habits die hard.

If you have any that are in a black limestone, but from the Moroccan Sahara then, they are different again.

Then there are those in the brownish limestone with goniatites that are Late Devonian and again different genera and species.

 

I have some brown ones....................

[Tidgy's Dad]

2 minutes ago, mr.cheese said:

I have some brown ones....................

Not sure what they are yet, as I haven't got to doing the research.

I'm only as far as the Early Devonian for my nautiloids.

[Tidgy's Dad]

28 minutes ago, Brian James Maguire said:

@Tidgy's Dad any ideas at all what type of orthoconic nautiloid this might be?

Not really, I have not done the research as I don't have any.

This might help:

Carboniferous Nautiloids Ireland.pdf

[mr.cheese]

4 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Not sure what they are yet, as I haven't got to doing the research.

I'm only as far as the Early Devonian for my nautiloids.

Well I will give you to the end of the week?!  Thank you for the knowledge tortoise dad!

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread here  @Brian James Maguire

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 minute ago, mr.cheese said:

Well I will give you to the end of the week?!  Thank you for the knowledge tortoise dad!

 

Sorry for hijacking your thread here  @Brian James Maguire

I am estimating the year 2039.

Not kidding.

[westcoast]

1 hour ago, Brian James Maguire said:

@Tidgy's Dad any ideas at all what type of orthoconic nautiloid this might be?

Difficult to determine without seeing  the connection between the siphuncle and the septae.

[TqB]

@Brian James Maguire Lovely specimen! As you'll have gathered, they're hard to put a genus to. Some Irish Carboniferous possibilities are Ormoceras, Rayonnoceras, Carbactinoceras, Geisonoceras, Michelinoceras, Dolorthoceras and a few more.

As a side note, "Nautilus" is just the modern genus, coiled of course. Anything earlier is described as a nautiloid if you can't go further, so "orthoconic nautiloid" is your best description at the moment.

 

[cngodles]

3 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Virtually everyone calls them Orthoceras, old habits die hard.

 

Even now, the species of Mooreoceras mentioned in the Ireland paper have been regrouped back into Pseudorthoceras.

 

Regardless, that is one nice long cross-section.