Triceratops frill?

[Mjq8]

From hell creek fm

Looks like frill to me? 
Bottom half looks broken or weathered?

[Daze]

Yes, that definitely looks like frill to me. 

[hadrosauridae]

Looks like the chunks of frill I have recovered over the years.

[joshuavise]

I am very inexperienced at identifying anything outside of some basic invertebrates like crinoids and whatnot.  I'm curious how you could look at this little chunk and determine that it is a piece of a frill.  What are the identifying markers you look for?  Asking because I want to learn.

 

[Mjq8]

3 minutes ago, joshuavise said:

I am very inexperienced at identifying anything outside of some basic invertebrates like crinoids and whatnot.  I'm curious how you could look at this little chunk and determine that it is a piece of a frill.  What are the identifying markers you look for?  Asking because I want to learn.

 

I believe frill is of even thickness, both sides should have “rivers”, which are blood vessels if Im not wrong. It should be at least around one inch thick or so. Someone more experienced would be better able to advise you. This info is what I gathered from this forum. 

[Mjq8]

Experienced people on this forum have said it is technically a ceratopsian frill but triceratops is more well known and also commonly found as fossils so we label it as such. I think hadrosaur is almost as common as triceratops in hell creek formation.

[TyBoy]

No way to positively say its Triceratops since there are quite a few different Ceratopsian in the Hell Creek.  Unfortunately not everything can be described to a genus level although most sellers like to use Triceratops because it helps sales.  Being well known and commonly found does not support identification to a specific genus

[jpc]

4 hours ago, Mjq8 said:

I believe frill is of even thickness, both sides should have “rivers”, which are blood vessels if Im not wrong. It should be at least around one inch thick or so. Someone more experienced would be better able to advise you. This info is what I gathered from this forum. 

yes.  

[Mjq8]

5 hours ago, TyBoy said:

No way to positively say its Triceratops since there are quite a few different Ceratopsian in the Hell Creek.  Unfortunately not everything can be described to a genus level although most sellers like to use Triceratops because it helps sales.  Being well known and commonly found does not support identification to a specific genus

I feel that statistically speaking, it should be likely triceratops or at least ceratopsian. Of course we have ceratopsians with no frills and other dinosaurs with frills. Other likely candidates might be hadrosaur and edmontosaurus for hell creek fm? Although there is little scientific literature on hadrosaur and edmontosaurus frills. Only way to be sure is if it came off a complete triceratops skeleton but the chances of that are abysmal. Or we could just call it a dinosaur frill but it doesn't seem as nice as triceratops frill. Its easier to simplify I guess. Anyone knows any other ceratopsians from hell creek fm with confirmed frills by scientists?

[hadrosauridae]

6 hours ago, Mjq8 said:

I believe frill is of even thickness, both sides should have “rivers”, which are blood vessels if Im not wrong. It should be at least around one inch thick or so. Someone more experienced would be better able to advise you. This info is what I gathered from this forum. 

 

This is a pretty good description of the ceratopsian frills.  As long as you think of it as a roughly flat shield, fairly uniform in thickness, with very dense vascular network present on the surface.  I believe that Leptoceratops is the only one without a large frill. 

[hadrosauridae]

6 minutes ago, Mjq8 said:

I feel that statistically speaking, it should be likely triceratops or at least ceratopsian. Of course we have ceratopsians with no frills and other dinosaurs with frills. Other likely candidates might be hadrosaur and edmontosaurus for hell creek fm? Although there is little scientific literature on hadrosaur and edmontosaurus frills. Only way to be sure is if it came off a complete triceratops skeleton but the chances of that are abysmal. Or we could just call it a dinosaur frill but it doesn't seem as nice as triceratops frill. Its easier to simplify I guess. Anyone knows any other ceratopsians from hell creek fm with confirmed frills by scientists?

 

The only hadrosaur known from the Hell Creek is Edmontosaurus Annectens, which had no crest, frill, etc.

Edited October 24, 2023 by hadrosauridae

[jpc]

5 hours ago, Mjq8 said:

Although there is little scientific literature on hadrosaur and edmontosaurus frills. Only way to be sure is if it came off a complete triceratops skeleton but the chances of that are abysmal. Or we could just call it a dinosaur frill but it doesn't seem as nice as triceratops frill. Its easier to simplify I guess. Anyone knows any other ceratopsians from hell creek fm with confirmed frills by scientists?

I have worked a lot in the Lance and Hell Creek... and this is a piece of ceratopsian parietal, most likely Triceratops.   There are no frills on any HC hadrosaurs.  The ceratopsians in the HC are Triceratops and Torosaurus and Leptoceratops.  See my comments above about Torosaurus.  

 

 

 

 

[Mjq8]

Thank you everyone!