Permian Reptile Captorhinus Fake Again?

[Lucid_Bot]

The first is Dimetrodon, Permian, Archer TX

The second is Cretaceous Lebanon

 

Thanks again for the help

[Lucid_Bot]

Any further responses please DM me as I can't scroll to the next page 

[Fossildude19]

The fish has been painted.

Probably real, but I have no idea on ID, and definitely has been painted.

[oilshale]

6 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Not familiar with this locality or it's fossils. 

 

@rocket  @oilshale @paleoflor

Genuine, may be a little bit overprepped. Baryte nodules with fossil wood and fossil spruce cones, so-called "Steinhardt peas", approx. 30 million years old. Search for “Steinhardter Erbsen”

Edited October 31, 2023 by oilshale

[oilshale]

5 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

The fish has been painted.

Probably real, but I have no idea on ID, and definitely has been painted.

I would guess from Lebanon

[oilshale]

11 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

Could someone explain to me what that reptile is. Plastic?

I once heard that in the famous Richard's Spur Quarry only single bones of Captorhinus are found which are then assembled to a complete skeleton.

This is the statement of a fossil dealer from Germany to a Captorhinus offered by him:

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by oilshale

[paleoflor]

10 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

I actually bought this one....

 

This one is real and not a bad specimen, I'd say.

 

As @oilshale already pointed out, these are known as "Steinhardter Erbsen". This nickname roughly translates into “peas of Steinhardt” and comes from a local legend that the barite concretions found in the fields and sand pits north of the village of Steinhardt (now part of Bad Sobernheim, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany) represent the cursed remains of a heartless farmers’ pea-sowing efforts. Geologists tend to think the barite concretions could alternatively have originated from geochemical interactions between the plant matter and barium-rich fluids associated with hot water springs in the area (Geib, 1937, 1955; Schmidt, 1979; Winckler, 1984; Loges et al., 2012; Wagner et al., 2005). The Steinhardt concretions were also featured in George Mustoe's (2018) open-access paper on non-silicified fossil wood. As I understood it, the concretions containing plant remains and shell casts occur in the Meeresand Fm. (Rupelian, Oligocene). Throughout the years, there have been several sand pits in operation around Steinhardt, making it difficult to pinpoint the exact locality, but you can be quite certain about the general “Steinhardt” provenance. A few years back, I made the sketch map shown below. It is based on a Google Earth satellite image of the “current” situation (must admit don't recall the exact year now...) and historical info I could gather from Geib (1937) and Geib (1955).

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by paleoflor

[Darktooth]

11 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

Could someone explain to me what that reptile is. Plastic?

Plastic was the first thought that came to my mind when I saw it.

[Lucid_Bot]

This is some great information. Thanks to all for your responses. I'm going to see what I can return that is fake.

[hadrosauridae]

Just a thought in reply to the post about "richard's spur" fossils.  I have seen many posts and comments around the webs referring to fossils supposedly from this location.  First thing people need to know is that Richard's Spur is a private location and part of a gravel quarry. The quarry is 100% off limits to anyone without museum / university credentials and part of an approved scientific outing.  The Quarry has been off limits for decades, so there is no new material coming from it, and any claims of material from there should be viewed as either lies, or stolen material.  

 

[trilobites_are_awesome]

4 hours ago, paleoflor said:

I actually bought this one....

this one looks fake to me.

[Fossildude19]

Just now, trilobites_are_awesome said:

this one looks fake to me.

It's not. Just overly prepared, with too much distinction between the scales. 
Overzealous prep, makes it look a bit fake.

[Fossildude19]

1 hour ago, Lucid_Bot said:

This is some great information. Thanks to all for your responses. I'm going to see what I can return that is fake.

 

A shame you bought these without asking first.

[trilobites_are_awesome]

1 minute ago, Fossildude19 said:

It's not. Just overly prepared, with too much distinction between the scales. 
Overzealous prep, makes it look a bit fake.

OK i did not know that. The shear amount of fakes on the market is crazy so many people get swindled like this.

[Lucid_Bot]

Just now, Fossildude19 said:

 

A shame you bought these without asking first.

It's not a big deal. I'm not going to stop being impulsive I'm returning the Captorhinus and sticking to those I know sell genuine fossils. Thanks again for everything!

[trilobites_are_awesome]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:47 AM, Lucid_Bot said:

It's not a big deal. I'm not going to stop being impulsive I'm returning the Captorhinus and sticking to those I know sell genuine fossils. Thanks again for everything!

 

 

The real shame is that there are so many fakes and fabrications out there.

[Fossildude19]

1 minute ago, trilobites_are_awesome said:

OK i did not know that. The shear amount of fakes on the market is crazy so many people get swindled like this.

 

 

That is why, whenever possible, it's best to find your own.

However, if you have to buy fossils, it is best to do your research, and learn what to look for. There is no substitute for education.

 

1 minute ago, Lucid_Bot said:

It's not a big deal. I'm not going to stop being impulsive I'm returning the Captorhinus and sticking to those I know sell genuine fossils. Thanks again for everything!

 

Glad to hear it. Impulsivity will ultimately lead to purchasing fakes. Remember, if it looks too good to be true, it usually isn't true. 

[trilobites_are_awesome]

I know i am appalled every time i go on a auction site.

[Lucid_Bot]

Is there any test for real bones. I'm being told the Captorhinus is simply a composite.

[trilobites_are_awesome]

16 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

Real but painted.

[Lucid_Bot]

Just now, trilobites_are_awesome said:

Real but painted.

I think I'll try to sell it as fossil art.

[Fossildude19]

2 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

Is there any test for real bones. I'm being told the Captorhinus is simply a composite.

 

If it is a cast, it would be made of resin or plaster, and if the latter one, nothing will really tell you what it is. If it was resin, a hot needle will pierce it.

 

2 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

I think I'll try to sell it as fossil art.

 

 

You could try to remove the paint, by using a bit of acetone. The fish is real, but has been painted over, probably because the coloring on it was very faint, and the fins were not that impressive looking without the paint.

 

[oilshale]

 

The coral might be Thecosmilia from the Jurassic of Nattheim, Germany.

For comparison: 

[hadrosauridae]

 

2 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

It's not a big deal. I'm not going to stop being impulsive I'm returning the Captorhinus and sticking to those I know sell genuine fossils. Thanks again for everything!

18 hours ago, Lucid_Bot said:

 

 

 

If you're going to be impulsive, you're gonna have to be smart about it!  Biggest problem is that "this" ^^ what most people think fossils look like coming out of the ground.  The truth is that a fully articulated animal is EXTREMELY rare.  Any presentation like this would be a composite from many different actual animals (museum displays do this all the time) or at least partial reconstruction with casts of the missing pieces. An honest and legitimate seller will include that information and be completely upfront before the sale.  If not, stay away and let someone else be the "sucker" who loses their $$$.

[Lucid_Bot]

15 minutes ago, hadrosauridae said:

 

 

If you're going to be impulsive, you're gonna have to be smart about it!  Biggest problem is that "this" ^^ what most people think fossils look like coming out of the ground.  The truth is that a fully articulated animal is EXTREMELY rare.  Any presentation like this would be a composite from many different actual animals (museum displays do this all the time) or at least partial reconstruction with casts of the missing pieces. An honest and legitimate seller will include that information and be completely upfront before the sale.  If not, stay away and let someone else be the "sucker" who loses their $$$.

It doesn't bother me that it's a composite so much as it looks like plastic for bone.