Love the Surprises

[Shellseeker]

I participated in the Spring meeting of the Florida Paleontological Society this week end.. Saturday I was up at 5 am to drive to Gainesville and see some old friends including @digit. We had presentations from Paleontology students on their field projects and the treat of visiting the Paleontology research lab collections (Vert, Invert, Plants) under the guidance of UF experts. Dinner, discussion, and an auction in the evening .  Saturday was jammed full. I have taken a set of photos which I'll share in another thread.. hopefully tomorrow. 

This is about Sunday.  A field trip to Haile Quarry in Newberry, Fl. We are allowed in the Quarry for three hours and time flies when I am hunting fossils..  We moved twice looking in three sites.. I found many seashells and a few echinoids,  including a gigantic one where I can not recall the name. I will likely get to a thread on my other finds Wednesday (Hunting again Tuesday). 

In this case,  I wanted to show my prize and ask for Identification help before going to sleep.

At the last site was a Sink hole, which had been partially excavated by a team of UF graduate students some decades ago, They found all sorts of bones,  skeletons,  teeth , Miocene aged. and I only had twenty five minutes before we left..   It was not sufficient to find a lot of quantity. but 10 minutes in,  I found this Rhino upper Molar just laying on the ground. I had to pinch myself.  I was NOT expecting Rhino.  

Note that Hunter_Schreger Bands are visible in the enamel,  just as we would expect.

So the 1st question is :  Florida had 3-4 Rhino species.  

1) Florida Rhino (Aphelops mutilus)
From Alachua Co., Florida
Lived ~8 million years ago

2) Panama Rhino (Floridaceras whitei)
Adult (cast) and Juvenile
From the Republic of Panama, Central America
3) Teleoceras proterum
Lived ~10 million years ago 

4) Menoceras ("Crescent Horns"^[4]) is a genus of extinct, small rhinocerotids endemic to most of southern North America and ranged as far south as Panama during the early Miocene epoch. It lived from around 30.7—19.7 Ma, existing for approximately 11 million years.

 

For the time being, I am thinking Teleoceras proterum,  the one I know best.

 

 

Here is an upper jaw of Teleoceras proterum. Teleoceras fossils have been found inside the Haile quarry.

I have started at this photo above.  It is not a perfect match, but I am thinking an upper left P3... 

 

Comments/Suggestions appreciated.   Jack

[shark57]

Looks more like a P4 to me - based on the shape of the "pi" shaped occlusal service in the first pic. But I am not an expert. Harry probably has an opinion, maybe we should tag him.

[Shellseeker]

8 hours ago, shark57 said:

Looks more like a P4 to me - based on the shape of the "pi" shaped occlusal service in the first pic. But I am not an expert. Harry probably has an opinion, maybe we should tag him.

Thanks for the comment. It may well be a P4. I agree on seeking @Harry Pristis expertise. It is certainly a small tooth and from the root photo above a little triangular in nature. 

I have a T. proterum M2  that is huge next to this tooth.

 

[Mahnmut]

Cool colour!

[Harry Pristis]

It's likely to be a premolar, it's so small.  Can't eliminate it being a deciduous tooth.  Menoceras would be part of a very distinctive fauna . . . what else is being found in that sinkhole?

Aphelops and Floridaceras are very large rhinos, larger than Teleoceras, by the way.

For comparison:

 

Hulbert and I couldn't agree on some of these premolar identifications:  He relies on his conviction that P2 is "often lost" in Teloceras;  I argued that these teeth can't be anything else.

[Shellseeker]

58 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

It's likely to be a premolar, it's so small.  Can't eliminate it being a deciduous tooth.  Menoceras would be part of a very distinctive fauna . . . what else is being found in that sinkhole?

Aphelops and Floridaceras are very large rhinos, larger than Teleoceras, by the way.

For comparison:

 

Thanks , Harry... Insightful... It seems that there might be a large amount of variation between upper teeth,  even in the same species ?

I was confused by this tooth, not recognizing it as Teloceras and thinking because of the small size , it might be Menoceras. But then I was confused about the sinkhole.  There is liturature out there indicating that there are multiple mammal fossil producing sinkholes within the Haile Quarries. 

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/sites/haile-7c/

I found this which discusses a Late Miocene_early Pliocene sinkhole...  

and then this statement in Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Quarry_site

Quote

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Alachua County, Florida and Miocene shoreline based on the Florida Geologic Survey. Florida during the Miocene Florida during the Pleistocene

The Haile Quarry or Haile sites are an Early Miocene and Pleistocene assemblage of vertebrate fossils located in the Haile quarries, Alachua County, northern Florida. The assemblage was discovered during phosphate mining, which began in the late 1940s.^[1] Haile sites are found in the Alachua Formation. Two sites within the Ocala Limestone yielded Upper Eocene Valvatida (sea stars) and mollusks.

Early Miocene ??? would certainly mean Menoceras is possible. But it depends on which of many sinkholes I was hunting for 20 minutes.... 

I will tell you when/if I find out more... 

[Shellseeker]

On 3/4/2024 at 3:30 PM, Shellseeker said:

Early Miocene ??? would certainly mean Menoceras is possible. But it depends on which of many sinkholes I was hunting for 20 minutes.... 

I will tell you when/if I find out more... 

I got responses from Richard Hulbert....

Quote

This locality seems to be the one that we call Haile 16C.  Its age is early Hemphillian. The tooth is small because it is an anterior premolar. So far all rhino fossils from this site are Aphelops, although Teleoceras is also found at many sites of this age in Florida.

 

Richard

I checked  and while this is not exactly our old Haile 16C site, it is only about 50 yards away. I would have to see some horse teeth (from the same location) to be sure of age, but would still favor early Hemphillian. That is the age of all the Haile sites that are older than Pleistocene. 

 

Richard

Comments: 

1) The Hemphillian is divided into four subintervals: the Hh1 from 9.0 to 7.5 million years ago; the Hh2 from 7.5 to 6.8 million years ago; the Hh3 from 6.8 to 5.7 million years ago, and the Hh4 from 5.7 to 4.75 million years ago (Tedford et al., 2004). The Hh1 and Hh2 together form the early Hemphillian and the Hh3 and Hh4 the late Hemphillian. There are no fossil localities in Florida that are known to fall in the Hh3 interval.

 

2) Characteristic species for the early Hemphillian in Florida: Pseudemys caelata, Macrochelys auffenbergi, Thecachampsa americana, Pliometanastes protistus, Epicyon haydeni, Aepycamelus major, Hemiauchenia minima, Floridameryx floridanus, Metaxytherium floridanum, Pomatodelphis inaequalis, Calippus cerasinus, Calippus maccartyi, Cormohipparion ingenuum, Cormohipparion plicatile, Dinohippus spectans, Nannippus morgani, Nannippus westoni, Neohipparion trampasense, Protohippus gidleyi, Pseudhipparion skinneri, Tapirus webbi, Aphelops malacorhinus, Aphelops mutilus, and Teleoceras proterum.

 

3) The tooth is small because it is an anterior premolar.

 

4) So far all rhino fossils from this site are Aphelops, although Teleoceras is also found at many sites of this age in Florida.

 

So,  A premolar of Aphelops .sp from the early Hemphillian.

 

Here are some photos of Aphelops teeth: The sizes are comparable. I believe I have a right side premolar from the Maxilla.

 

 

I have yet to find the "perfect match".  However I know a lot more than I did...

@shark57  @Harry Pristis

[shark57]

Useful information for sure. I think we were all on the right track calling it a premolar. With some species/teeth there is enough variation that you can't always pin it down to an exact tooth position.