Shellseeker Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Out hunting yesterday, Sun shining with friends and my friends were finding lots more than I.. it happens. However, I always find somethings interesting. An Equus tooth showing traverse HSBs Posterior end of a dolphin jaw Some Galeocerdo mayumbensis, which I guess ages the site as Miocene... and just before it fell thru my sieve.. captured this Bull ? or Dusky tooth... So, now for the Fossil ID requests.. First, a very small Osteoderm... I found at least 2 Holmesina osteoderms in the group photo above, but this one seems to me not to be armadillo. This is about an inch !!! but screams Glyptodont to me.. I would like to hear from those who have found glyptodon osteoderms, what they think about this one. If consensus is Glyptodont, where on the carapace does this small osteoderm appear ? and the 2nd ID request.. Many know that I like to find ear bones, periotics, petrosals, bulla, whatever.. Is the white blob on the left edge of the photo an ear bone or just a blob of mud concretion... I will provide some additional photos to help evaluation. To me, it seems like skull material around a periotic/petrosal... I was thinking 1/2 of a dugong periotic, but I imagine that @Harry Pristis or @Plantguy have actually found those and may be able to bring some light on the topic. 7 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Hey Jack, I’ve found somewhere north of 50 glyptodon osteoderms plus a couple of really nice articulated pieces. None of them look like this. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Shellseeker said: ... and just before it fell thru my sieve.. captured this Bull ? or Dusky tooth... Carcharhinus, but species? Could we see the lingual side? 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 5 hours ago, hemipristis said: Carcharhinus, but species? Could we see the lingual side? @ShellseekerYes, I would like to see pics of the other side also Jack. What is the age of the Miocene there, what formation? The serrations are interesting on that tooth to say the least. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 The osteoderm looks like it might be paramylodon to me, @PrehistoricFlorida recently listed some on his website you might compare to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 8 hours ago, hemipristis said: Carcharhinus, but species? Could we see the lingual side? Hard to get good "sharp" photos of tiny fossils using my cellphone... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, sixgill pete said: @ShellseekerYes, I would like to see pics of the other side also Jack. What is the age of the Miocene there, what formation? The serrations are interesting on that tooth to say the least. The Bone Valley member of the Peace River Formation is directly in my hunting ground. The Peace River is a washing machine mixing layers and fauna , so actually discussing a Peace River Miocene location is nuanced... Most of the Peace River is mixed Miocene (Megs), Pliocene (Giant Sloth) and Pleistocene (Horses, Llamas, etc)... But what if you find a predominate number of fauna fossils from one of those ages. It is rare but In 15 years, I have found locations that predominately produce Miocene, OR Pliocene OR Pleistocene but not the mixture. So when I refer to a Miocene location in Peace River Formation , it is because I am finding more Miocene fossils than one would expect. Here is a paper from a Miocene Formation in South America, and I know most of the researchers. Note that they found 5 shark species , one of which ... the Dusky dominated. Any time I find many Sand Tigers, I start thinking Miocene... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, CDiggs said: The osteoderm looks like it might be paramylodon to me, @PrehistoricFlorida recently listed some on his website you might compare to. Thank you for the pointer!!. It never occurred to me that this Osteoderm might be sloth. I will check it out. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) Hey Jack, you continue to have a m great mix of finds..congrats and thanks! So on that oddly shaped possible ear bone. I have a number with the larger holes but nothing really like your latest example. Here's 3: My vibe is that it isnt a periotic. It looks more like an irregular pebble sized piece of phosphatic matrix to me than bone but I wouldnt be certain until seeing it in hand/under magnification unless you say for sure its boney. Right now it almost looks like a gastropod/marine snail cast missing parts of the inner whorls... Regards, Chris Edited March 24 by Plantguy Added additional 3 ear bone photo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Seeing the info you provided Jack, I will say it is likely C. obscurus (Dusky shark) Dating the Peace River Formation as late Oligocene to the early Miocene (similar to the Belgrade Formation here in North Carolina) also explains (at least to me) the "aggressive" serrations on the tooth. I have noted from the Belgrade in the Carcharhinus species there (Dusky is one of them) a progression of the serrations. From gnarly looking like on your tooth to the finer, smoother serrations of the Pliocene species. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 5 hours ago, sixgill pete said: Seeing the info you provided Jack, I will say it is likely C. obscurus (Dusky shark) Dating the Peace River Formation as late Oligocene to the early Miocene (similar to the Belgrade Formation here in North Carolina) also explains (at least to me) the "aggressive" serrations on the tooth. I have noted from the Belgrade in the Carcharhinus species there (Dusky is one of them) a progression of the serrations. From gnarly looking like on your tooth to the finer, smoother serrations of the Pliocene species. Thanks for the info on the age of the Belgrade Fm. I also have a Pliocene Location, It predominately has Dusky, Bull , and Tiger teeth. I am always "challenged" to differentiate Dusky from Bull. And , as you indicate , finer, smoother, serrations The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 On 3/24/2024 at 12:15 AM, Plantguy said: My vibe is that it isnt a periotic. It looks more like an irregular pebble sized piece of phosphatic matrix to me than bone but I wouldnt be certain until seeing it in hand/under magnification unless you say for sure its boney. Right now it almost looks like a gastropod/marine snail cast missing parts of the inner whorls. Thanks for the insight, Chris. I real for any straw on possibility of finding a dugong periotic. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Since the ear guys are already here, I found this in the river a month back just bank hunting. Finally remembered to photos today. @Plantguy feel free to drop the phosphate drag bucket on my dream if needed. 😉 Jp 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Fun Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Another great post Jack, I learn a few things every time you post an oddity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, Balance said: Since the ear guys are already here, I found this in the river a month back just bank hunting. Finally remembered to photos today. @Plantguy feel free to drop the phosphate drag bucket on my dream if needed. 😉 Jp Ill have to look at that closer later this week... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/25/2024 at 10:12 PM, Plantguy said: Ill have to look at that closer later this week... Regards, Chris I do think this is an ear bone, very cool! . I'll be the first to tell you though that I'm no expert so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I'm not sure if its land or marine mammal but its worn features do remind me more of a some type of cetacean. I'll have to go thru Oleary's pdf guide and Bobbys periotics blog/pages... if I see something worthwhile I'll post again... Was hoping Bobby could take a look but I'm not sure if he has the time... @Boesse Continued hunting success! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) On 3/26/2024 at 5:56 AM, Shellseeker said: Thanks for the info on the age of the Belgrade Fm. I also have a Pliocene Location, It predominately has Dusky, Bull , and Tiger teeth. I am always "challenged" to differentiate Dusky from Bull. And , as you indicate , finer, smoother, serrations Keep in mind that there are perhaps a dozen Carcharhinus species present as fossils in the US East Coast Miocene-Pliocene. Other species that are easily confused with moderately-sized bulls and duskies include the common (particularly in the Chesapeake Bay Area) C. perezii (Caribbean reef shark) and C. plumbeus (sandbar shark), and a few more uncommon ones: C. longimanus (oceanic white tip---a favorite of mine ) and C. galapagensis (Galapagos shark). And these are just the moderate to large teeth. When one considers teeth on the 0.5 inch (~1 - 1.25 cm) range, there's a smorgasbord of options, including juvenile versions of the above. There are a few modern species whose teeth resemble a few of the fossil teeth which I possess or have seen that don't quite fit the "usual suspects". Fun times, lol. Back to the subject at hand, it could be a juvenile dusky, but the root isn't as robust as one usually sees in that species, and the very distinct notch is also uncharacteristic. If I had to make a play, I'd say it is an adult from one of the smaller Carcharhinids. Edited March 30 by hemipristis 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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