Something Uncommon

[FossilForKids]

Here is a Juvinile Desmo from Bob's land.

Here is a relatively rare tooth from a Neotherium which is a small sea lion and the teeth are much more rare in Bakersfield that the larger Allodesmus. I found it on Bob's land.

[isurus90064]

Hey John

Nice examples.

[isurus90064]

Here's an example of a jaw of the smaller seal called Neotherium mirum with several cheek teeth still in their sockets.

[FossilForKids]

Here is a relatively rare tooth from a Neotherium which is a small sea lion and the teeth are much more rare in Bakersfield that the larger Allodesmus. I found it on Bob's land.

Hi Marcel....Thanks!

I never have found a complete large one yet.

[FossilForKids]

Hi Marcel....Thanks!

I never have found a complete large one yet.

Great Neotherium Jaw Marcel! Do you have any Tomasi Canines that you could post a picture of?

[isurus90064]

That's not just rare, that's supremely rare ... among the rarest things gound at STH. I have a fragment somewhere and will have to re-find it. I will also take some pictures of larger Allodesmus jaws. For some new STH stuff also see this thread .... http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?sh...2380&st=140

[Martijn]

Siverson (1999) described a new genus (Cardabiodon) and erected a new Family CARDABIODONTIDAE for it based on material from the Cenomanian of Australia. He moved Parotodus into this family. While creating this new family seemed warranted, moving Parotodus into this family seems less well argued, although it's entirely possibly. He considered the defining tooth characteristics for this family to be the presence of four upper & lower anterior tooth positions.

Of the top of my head Cardabiodon has been found in Norway, western Australia, eastern Russia, France, and Kansas.

Additional examples:

http://www.oceansofkansas.com/KS-sharks.html (about half-down a very loooong page).

http://users.skynet.be/somniosus/Turonian_2.htm

Norway, hmmmm the only place that I could imagin would be Spitsbergen.

Greetings from Norway,

Martijn

[isurus90064]

Physeter spp. from STH ...

[Guest bmorefossil]

Physeter spp. from STH ...

very nice

[isurus90064]

very nice

thanks bmore

[Guest bmorefossil]

thanks bmore

now does this species have the rings or do all sperm whale teeth have that?

[isurus90064]

now does this species have the rings or do all sperm whale teeth have that?

The one on the left does, the other does not.

[isurus90064]

Pathological Prosqualodon sp. tooth ... (the Prosqualodon ID for these STH examples is in dispute and this genus is reverting back to Squalodon sp.!?) ... if anyone has more info please post ...

[Guest bmorefossil]

yea i knew the one on the right wouldnt, the one on the left is similar to what we find here.

[PaleoRon]

... if I attach the pictures you'd actually be able to see it

Wow, that thing is huge. Here are some of my specimens from Coalinga.

[isurus90064]

Wow, that thing is huge. Here are some of my specimens from Coalinga.

Beautiful teeth!!!!

[eddie]

Hmmmm, haven't checked in for a while, looks like I've missed some spectacular fossils. Here is a pathological Lee Creek chubladon. I've probably posted it before, but it's one of my favorites, and I got a new camera recently...

Thanks,

Eddie

[Auspex]

Hmmmm, haven't checked in for a while, looks like I've missed some spectacular fossils. Here is a pathological Lee Creek chubladon. I've probably posted it before, but it's one of my favorites, and I got a new camera recently...

Thanks,

Eddie

Excellent photos of a gorgeous tooth!

[isurus90064]

Excellent tooth ... very unusual!

[Boesse]

Pathological Prosqualodon sp. tooth ... (the Prosqualodon ID for these STH examples is in dispute and this genus is reverting back to Squalodon sp.!?) ... if anyone has more info please post ...

Hey Marcel,

Here is the text of a post in the thread "Bakersfield = Oildwells....er.....whales!" I just posted a few minutes ago, RE: Prosqualodon:

"Your sperm whale teeth are probably from Aulophyseter morricei. True Physeter fossils don't occur until the early Pliocene.

Additionally, your 'Prosqualodon' teeth likely belong to "Squalodon" errabundus. "S. errabundus" is known from the Middle-early Late Miocene of California, and is a very large Platanistid. Platanistids are very aberrant 'river dolphins' that include the modern ganges river dolphin, Platanista gangetica.

"Squalodon" errabundus needs a new genus name, as it is now represented by multiple skulls from the STH bonebed (in the LACM collections), none of which remotely resemble a true squalodontid.

Not to sound persnickety, but for some reason a lot of folks refer to the critter in the STH bonebed as 'Prosqualodon', and I suspect a lot of that stems from the Buena Vista Museum of Natural History. They have incorrectly labeled it in their exhibits (see here), and on their faunal list for the bonebed.

I once asked Larry Barnes (LACM) about this, and he had no idea why - he is thus far the expert on that taxon, and its just "Squalodon" errabundus. Prosqualodon is thus far only known from the southern hemisphere, and was a pretty nasty looking critter.

In any event, John - you have some beautiful specimens in your collection! Keep up the good work, and the photos flowing! "

NICE fossils, guys. Very beautiful Neotherium jaw, Marcel. You have quite a collection. We still need to talk about Oceanside, and I've got some questions for you at some point about Isurus planus...

Bobby

[isurus90064]

Hey Marcel,

Here is the text of a post in the thread "Bakersfield = Oildwells....er.....whales!" I just posted a few minutes ago, RE: Prosqualodon:

"Your sperm whale teeth are probably from Aulophyseter morricei. True Physeter fossils don't occur until the early Pliocene.

Additionally, your 'Prosqualodon' teeth likely belong to "Squalodon" errabundus. "S. errabundus" is known from the Middle-early Late Miocene of California, and is a very large Platanistid. Platanistids are very aberrant 'river dolphins' that include the modern ganges river dolphin, Platanista gangetica.

"Squalodon" errabundus needs a new genus name, as it is now represented by multiple skulls from the STH bonebed (in the LACM collections), none of which remotely resemble a true squalodontid.

Not to sound persnickety, but for some reason a lot of folks refer to the critter in the STH bonebed as 'Prosqualodon', and I suspect a lot of that stems from the Buena Vista Museum of Natural History. They have incorrectly labeled it in their exhibits (see here), and on their faunal list for the bonebed.

I once asked Larry Barnes (LACM) about this, and he had no idea why - he is thus far the expert on that taxon, and its just "Squalodon" errabundus. Prosqualodon is thus far only known from the southern hemisphere, and was a pretty nasty looking critter.

In any event, John - you have some beautiful specimens in your collection! Keep up the good work, and the photos flowing! "

NICE fossils, guys. Very beautiful Neotherium jaw, Marcel. You have quite a collection. We still need to talk about Oceanside, and I've got some questions for you at some point about Isurus planus...

Bobby

Hey Bobby, good to hear from you again. Thanks for your comments. You are absolutely correct on the Physeter as well as the Prosqualodon comment. The'Prosqualodon' tooth from STH does not compare well at all with Prosqualodon from the East Coast. Comprehensive systematics for STH has not been done in a long time and so the faunal list you find on the Buena Vista page is somewhat of a frankenstein as well as it being outdated (last time I checked). Also, there are a number of these 'Prosqualodon' skulls in the Buena Vista Museum collection.

On the Oceanside stuff, shoot me an email whenever you feel like.

As far as planus, I saw another post of yours which I can't find right now but it deals with the geographic occurrence of planus I believe. I just wanted to add that planus also occurs in:

Topanga Formation, Orange County, CA

Rosarita Beach Formation, La Mision, Mexico

I have some documentation somewhere that also lists I. planus coming from Australia and Indonesia.

Marcel.

[fossilselachian]

Excellent photos of a gorgeous tooth!

Hi Eddie:

It's been a while since we have corresponded - hope all is well.

Nice "doubles"on that patho.

FS

[Boesse]

Hey Bobby, good to hear from you again. Thanks for your comments. You are absolutely correct on the Physeter as well as the Prosqualodon comment. The'Prosqualodon' tooth from STH does not compare well at all with Prosqualodon from the East Coast. Comprehensive systematics for STH has not been done in a long time and so the faunal list you find on the Buena Vista page is somewhat of a frankenstein as well as it being outdated (last time I checked). Also, there are a number of these 'Prosqualodon' skulls in the Buena Vista Museum collection.

On the Oceanside stuff, shoot me an email whenever you feel like.

As far as planus, I saw another post of yours which I can't find right now but it deals with the geographic occurrence of planus I believe. I just wanted to add that planus also occurs in:

Topanga Formation, Orange County, CA

Rosarita Beach Formation, La Mision, Mexico

I have some documentation somewhere that also lists I. planus coming from Australia and Indonesia.

Marcel.

Hey Marcel,

Comprehensive systematics on fossil cetaceans has never been done in a rigorous manner, and Barnes (1976) listed (but did not figure) the STH cetaceans. Aside from this, Barnes (1978) described/figured some periotics of Liolithax kernensis, and Barnes and Mitchell (1984) described a skull and periotics of Kentriodon obscurus (=Grypolithax spp., Kellogg). Aside from this, I am not aware of any recent literature describing any of the STH cetaceans. All of the cetacean taxa aside from the aforementioned studies are in dire need of redescription. The pinnipeds have received ample attention, however (Mitchell, 1966; Barnes, 1972; Barnes, 1987?, Barnes et al., 1995).

As an aside, Prosqualodon hasn't been recorded from the east coast yet. The teeth people have been identifying as Prosqualodon probably belong to some other platanistoid odontocete. I'm not aware of a single published reference of Prosqualodon, or any Prosqualodon specimens that have actually been identified by an odontocete specialist.

I'll fire you an email sometime about Oceanside. Didn't get a chance to go there last summer. Also, there's another similarly aged deposit further north I want to ask you about (If I haven't already!).

Are there published references for the Topanga Cyn. occurrence? I think Demere et al. 1984 (year?) record I. planus from Baja, and I've seen some I. planus teeth at SDNHM from that deposit.

BY the way - the so-called San Diego Fm. record of Carcharocles megalodon - don't buy into it. There are I. planus and I. hastalis teeth from the same locality, so I suspect it is material reworked into the San Diego Fm. from the Rosarito Beach Fm.

Bobby

[siteseer]

Eddie your Peruvian tooth is on the way ...

I also mentioned I was going to post some non-serrated threshers. For the sake of completeness I also included the serrated ones, a cusped thresher, and several Oligocene Parotodus sp. teeth.

1.17"/2.97cm - Parotodus sp., Oligocene, Chandler Bridge Formation, Summerville, SC

1.14"/2.89cm - Parotodus sp., Oligocene, "4-hole swamp", SC

1.49"/3.78cm - Parotodus sp., Oligocene, Hawthorne Formation, Austin Pit, Ridgeville, SC

I thought all the teeth from Austin Pit were Pliocene. I have a definite Carcharodon carcharias from there - also a Parotodus like yours.

[siteseer]

Hey Marcel,

BY the way - the so-called San Diego Fm. record of Carcharocles megalodon - don't buy into it. There are I. planus and I. hastalis teeth from the same locality, so I suspect it is material reworked into the San Diego Fm. from the Rosarito Beach Fm.

Bobby

Bobby,

I have heard of the megalodon occurrence in the San Diego Formation being questioned before but there is an unpublished occurrence (as far as I know). Joseph Arndt once told me that George Kanakoff found one at a San Diego Fm. site (he sent me a photo of the hillside). The problem is the tooth was a desk ornament desk for some time up to when Kanakoff retired (now deceased) and its current whereabouts are unknown (could be in the collections somewhere; probably didn't go home with him). Therefore, I have no real evidence - only the word of an old-school geologist not given to exaggeration or ambiguity in scientific matters.