BFunderburk Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Thanks, Herb! Your ideas and illustrations are intriguing! I believe that when one studies the long part of the chelae and sees how the pincher-like pieces join it (in MS and TX specimens), it eliminates the mollusk shell tips possibility. But you are right in that some of the claw/pincher parts are another crab species (shown; found this weekend in similar location!). I DO find Trigonia but mostly only as replaced by pyrite; as well as inoceramus- but these are not inoceramus hinges. I've also seen those darker Coon Creek crustaceans- wonderful stuff- hope to get north to explore, but these are... different. My next move is, over holidays, to draw all views of a complete chelae appendage with pincher at end, and post. All the best! BF Last one (single specimen) is a "pincher" found joined to chela appendage; the other two are of a large posse of (a different) Decapod genus of crab claw parts found in Prairie Bluff Fm. this weekend. Edited December 8, 2015 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Hello, Plax, I am looking looking looking at paqurid and Enocploclytia. Don't see anything yet that closely resembles these crustacean chelae/claw parts. If you have images that relate to mine, could you please post them. Thank you! Attached are three images- first is the pincher-like part connected to longer chela part- from MS; second is from a Dan Wohr post (Texas/Tarrant Co./PawPaw Fm.) Third is a closeup of the MS specimen. Edited December 8, 2015 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) The correct spelling is Enoploclytia. This large lobster is characterized by extremely long slender fingers relative to the size of the palm: (image source here) Another possibility is some species of Palaeastacus. This is another large lobster, also known from the Upper Cretaceous. Compared to Enoploclytia the fingers are shorter in relation to the palm. (image source here) Don Edited December 8, 2015 by FossilDAWG 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks, FossilDAWG. I am open. The length of the chelae parts is intriguing. These, yet, are not convincing. I will study. Keep me and my crustacean friend in mind as you go about your fossil adventure. GRATEFUL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) OK, going rogue here. I've posted new information and photos about the mystery Cretaceous crustacean creature in a new Facebook Community Page called, cleverly, "Cretaceous Crustacean Creature 2015"! If you dare, please join me and the viral CCC madness there. Thank you for putting up with this excited amateur. I am grateful for even the Inoceramus hinge theorists. Still, in 2016 I pledge to ID this sweet guy, with your help. A teaser here: Edited December 21, 2015 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Fossil Forum friends, please check out the Facebook page "Cretaceous Crustacean Creature 2015" to see new photos and a photo inventory of CCC research images. I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Now, look at the last post and these joined parts. What kind of chelae and pincer operation is going on here? (First 3 are from Prairie bluff Fm, MS; last 2 are from Uncle Siphuncle (thanks!) from Texas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Newly assembled crustacean claw/pincer/chelae. Took a good day to locate parts, assemble and glue. The most complete (relative term, since we don't know ID or whole creature morphology!) and largest I've seen or found (in MS, AL or TX). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Here's the original "in situ" find of previous chelae in MS (2011 or 2012). Can you see the parts? There are 8 involved in the complete piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 A day of revelation! Some real progress now, with help from MB, Uncle Siphuncle and our amazing paleontologist curator at the Mississippi Museum of Natural Sciences, George Phillips. Thanks! First, an article an image from J. M. W. Jagt from a presentation in St. Petersburg last year, as well as a link to the Scripta Geologica article he cowrote (with R. H. B. Fraaije and B. W. M. van Bakel), titled "Decapod odds and ends from the Maastrichtian type area (southeast Netherlands, northeast Belgium)" in October, 2014. The photograph shows how both of the most commonly found chelae/pincer pieces of our mystery crustacean fit into a large claw. This may well be a "killer crab" according to Jagt- a serious contender among the monster predators of the late Cretaceous period. I incude, again, two of my photos of these two parts; see if you can find the "fit" in this black-and-white photograph. Quite surprising (and rewarding) due to the fact that I and colleagues have found 100s of pieces but nothing of this completeness in USA (TX, MS, AL). I look forward to your comments, friends! jagt2015-1--- (1).pdf Scripta Geologica2.html 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 You could sell tickets to this thread, that's how cool it is! What a piece of sleuthing! 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Thanks to Fossil Forum's MB for these leads! Jagt calls this specimen "Oncopareia heterdon" (from J. Bosquet, 1854), but as you can see, believes that it is more likely a "podotreme crab" rather than a type of lobster. George Phillips of MMNS has correlated larger specimens of claws from Ripley Fm., AL, that reveal calcitic chela that I'll post soon. These, however, have largely pyritized coverings that conceal form details. More on this as it appears! The images I'm posting now are from "Caveman" (Mart's Fossielen Webpage") on his: palaeopage.nl/krabben/index.html website, showing cheipeds from the ENCI Quarry (NV- Gronsveld Member) in the same area of Maastrichtian Netherlands/Belgium as the B/W photo shown by Jagt in his articles. Caveman also labels his finds "Oncopareia? heterodon" (after Bosquet). Edited January 6, 2016 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Thanks Auspex! This is exciting stuff. I love the way Fossil Forum helps bring our pursuits together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Alex (MB) and I have been working on a similar claw type from much older, Middle Albian, strata in Texas. Hopefully, new finds can shed more light on these large clawed decapods. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) OK, here's how these MS Ripley Fm./Prairie Bluff Fm. chelipeds fit into Jagt's B/W photo of the specimen from "RGM Jongman's Collection, unreg." (my labeling in second image) Wow! Edited January 6, 2016 by BFunderburk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Sure, JohnJ, here are some images from North Texas (via Uncle Siphuncle) that have echoed the Blackbelt Prairie specimens in MS (and in Netherlands/Belgium!). I know not TX that well, but understand that these are from late Cretaceous formations- PawPaw Fm. and Corsicana Fm. Is there a cogent guide(book) to TX Cretaceous fossils? Edited January 6, 2016 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Brent, the triple image on the left, above is from Lance Hall's "North Texas Fossils" webpage. Click on "SubPhylum - Crustacea". The Paw Paw Formation is lower Cretaceous; the Corsicana Formation is upper Cretaceous. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) (From BFunderburk: ) These are amazing, now that I study the calcitic tips of claws/pincers (pink- aragonitic?) that can just barely be seen. "Large shell-crushing crab" goes well with Jagt's "Killer crab" (in my most recent 1-4-16 post)! I really look forward to more study on what this covering is hiding! Thanks, dirtdauber! (dirtdauber:)- I hesitate to bring up an old topic, but I've collected and just recently prepared a couple of large crab (lobster) claws that may be relevant to this much discussed topic. First collected these claws in 2011 and posted pics (Cretaceous Crescent Wrenches, Sept. 18, 2011) at that time. I showed these unprepared specimens to George Phillips, curator of the Mississippi Museum of Natural Science, this spring and he thinks they belong to an undescribed, large shell-crushing crab. George had not seen any complete claws before and noted that the bits and pieces of claw frequently found in Texas and Mississippi probably belong to this crab. The specimens pictured in the original post of this topic and others from Texas really resemble the cutting/crushing surface of the chela of my specimens. The conversation with George inspired me to prepare the claws and I finished the most complete one yesterday. I've sent photos of the prepared claws to George and he was to forward the photos to colleagues for their input. Hadn't heard back yet. Anyway, the specimens were collected from the Ripley Fm., Selma Group, Upper Cretaceous (Early Maastrichtian/Late Campanian) in south-central Alabama. what do you think? claws2c.jpg claws1a.jpg claws3a.jpg claw2d.jpg claw2k.jpg claw4e.jpg Edited January 6, 2016 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 A day of revelation! Some real progress now, with help from MB, Uncle Siphuncle and our amazing paleontologist curator at the Mississippi Museum of Natural Sciences, George Phillips. Thanks! First, an article an image from J. M. W. Jagt from a presentation in St. Petersburg last year, as well as a link to the Scripta Geologica article he cowrote (with R. H. B. Fraaije and B. W. M. van Bakel), titled "Decapod odds and ends from the Maastrichtian type area (southeast Netherlands, northeast Belgium)" in October, 2014. The photograph shows how both of the most commonly found chelae/pincer pieces of our mystery crustacean fit into a large claw. This may well be a "killer crab" according to Jagt- a serious contender among the monster predators of the late Cretaceous period. I incude, again, two of my photos of these two parts; see if you can find the "fit" in this black-and-white photograph. Quite surprising (and rewarding) due to the fact that I and colleagues have found 100s of pieces but nothing of this completeness in USA (TX, MS, AL). I look forward to your comments, friends! The scripta geologica came through on my end as html without pics. Enjoyed reading A ‘KILLER CRAB’ FROM THE UPPERMOST MAASTRICHTIAN OF NORTHEAST BELGIUM AND THE SOUTHEAST NETHERLAND by J.W.M. Jagt, B.W.M. van Bakel, R.H.B. Fraaije Guess my theory of a killer pagurid was wrong! Now where is the body of this monster???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Absolutely, Plax. We need a body! I'm looking, but this "killer crab" (Jagt, van Bakel, Fraaije) or "shell crusher" (Phillips- of a similar mystery specimen/may be the same) spent most of its mojo on a heavy, overwrought, monster claw that outlasted it! We'll keep on the hunt. Enjoy Carolinas fossiling (I have 2 degrees from ECU and some whale verts and ecphora from 70s!)! Jagt's "Decapod odds & ends..." '14.pdf Edited January 7, 2016 by BFunderburk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Am indeed enjoying it here BF! Will be in the vicinity of your alma matter in May to work the Tarheel. Am still thinking that your monster claw doesn't have a monster carapace to match. Am sure I had a similar claw from the Woodbury of NJ back in the 80s but no luck going through the boxes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Cheers to you and the frozen ground we (in the polar vortex- 2016 version) are sending your way tonight, Plax! The "Tarheel"- magazine? Seriously, I did many drawings/illustrations for "Tarheel" in 1970s! Yes, those claws did once have a body. Again, a recent find (attached image, left) from Ripley Fm./AL shows similar chelae tips, calcitic and pink and having the same undulations- but covered in form-hiding pyritized encasement. We'll head from Geo. Phillips this year about that, and hopefully, through this stream- from others. Seems like the NJ Cretaceous WOULD reveal some of these. Also looking to TX, and of course the Netherlands/Belgium Maastricht area that produced the breakthrough (for me). photo reposted here. Happy tramping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 That would be the Tarheel Formation (early campanian). Earliest formation of the Black Creek Group. Just lignite and amber in most of the outcrop area but fully marine near Greenville. Have not given up on finding your big claw (or something similar) in the boxes at my place...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) PLAX: Oh, THAT "Tarheel". Ha ha ha! I do recall, in 70s digging up huge Pecten/scallops and other fossil shells behind a car wash in Greenville, NC! And visits to Aurora Phosphate Mines- whale vertebrae, ecphora, etc. Do stay on beam with crab search/thanks. And have a nice BCG adventure before all freezes! BF (Attached: FYI: crinoid stem rising as wash-out float from short trek in cold this week. About 1.5". If I lifted it, it would crumble.) Edited January 20, 2016 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (Attached: FYI: crinoid stem rising as wash-out float from short trek in cold this week. About 1.5". If I lifted it, it would crumble.) Are you sure that is a crinoid stem? Looks odd. What does the cross section of one of the pieces look like? My guess would be Graphularia that is broken into several pieces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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