justforfun Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hi Ya'll, New to the forum but long time fossil hunter. I need a little help with this one; my heart skipped a beat when I discover this fossil. It appears to be of a snake; is not his skelton but of the snake itself. Scales and all. It was found in Eastern Kentucky, near the Daniel Boone NF. The sediment material around the fossil is, I believe sandstone, although it could be limestone too. The 'snake' seems to have been curled up hibernating in between layers and got caught inside, maybe in some sort of cave in. I am just reading into this, of course, as I have nothing to back this up, but what interest me is it is NOT an imprint of the 'snake', the fossil is actually 3D . The images I have attached make it look like an impression but actually is 3D fossil. I personally have never seen anything like this; has anyone else? Can anybody help verify my assumptions? J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 You've got yourself an Ammonite; a coiled shell cephalapod. Similar to today's Chambered Nautilus, Ammonites went extinct along with the dinosaurs. Others on the Forum can probably ID the species. Nice fossil! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 That is an exceptional fossil from that part of the state. Excellent find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 welcome to the forum, looks like you found a real nice ammonite, very cool!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Welcome, that is very nice. I hope one of the experts on here can identify that, I've never seen suturing like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 A very nice find!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Welcome, that is very nice. I hope one of the experts on here can identify that, I've never seen suturing like that. It may be unfounded, but I've always thought that the simpler, non-compound suturing (the snakey lines, which mark the walls between the chambers) was an indication of an older, more primitive ammonite. I'm sure that members more experienced with ammonites can refute that (and I welcome the correction). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 It may be unfounded, but I've always thought that the simpler, non-compound suturing (the snakey lines, which mark the walls between the chambers) was an indication of an older, more primitive ammonite. I'm sure that members more experienced with ammonites can refute that (and I welcome the correction). yes you are correct about that asupex, i looked in the only book i have on ammonite and could not find that exact one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Paleoviperus fangensis. Those things proliferated plethorily, with the end result being the elimination of a group of cave women through envenomations. It was the Katie extinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Paleoviperus fangensis. Those things proliferated plethorily, with the end result being the elimination of a group of cave women through envenomations. It was the Katie extinction. Easy, Tracer, this is a new member (who may not be familiar with your...excentricities). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone digger Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 welcome to the forum, great ammonite, love those sutures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 It is a great ammonite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Auspex - Look, the water's cold, and it doesn't get warmer by dunking one's toes in it - it's best just to throw them in. Besides, I might accidently have an aneurysm or something if I try to stifle myself. But if it becomes too much the consensus that I'm scaring off newbies, then I will leave voluntarily if the membership will chase me away by "stoning" me with meg teeth. (lobbed, not fired). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screweduptexan Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Tracer, tracer, tracer....what are we going to do with you? Interesting ammonite...although I've never seen any ammonite quite like it. I can't come up with anything clever enough for my signature...yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 It may be unfounded, but I've always thought that the simpler, non-compound suturing (the snakey lines, which mark the walls between the chambers) was an indication of an older, more primitive ammonite. I'm sure that members more experienced with ammonites can refute that (and I welcome the correction). Makes sense, thought the same thing. All in all, a very nice specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 To me, although I like to think intuitively, whether the suture pattern gets more or less complex over time would have to do with whether its need for structural strength (if that's what the sutures are for) was adequately met by the first type of sutures it had. In my mind, it would seem that "compound", complex suturing could either be an overly complex solution to a simple problem, or a necessary adaptation to have maximum structural strength, maybe laterally? Spread out the joint laterally to protect more against shearing forces? Don't know. Although it's probably a real stretch of an analogy, I've marveled at the complex sutures in the joints in modern skulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopocetus Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Auspex - Look, the water's cold, and it doesn't get warmer by dunking one's toes in it - it's best just to throw them in. Besides, I might accidently have an aneurysm or something if I try to stifle myself. But if it becomes too much the consensus that I'm scaring off newbies, then I will leave voluntarily if the membership will chase me away by "stoning" me with meg teeth. (lobbed, not fired). The Lottery...with a twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 ...I've marveled at the complex sutures in the joints in modern skulls. I like the structural strength idea (as opposed to "attracting a mate", since the animal would have to be dead to display the ornamentation, which precludes reproductive success). (Some of the really complex ones look like early experiments with fractal geometry!) "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 It is some kind of Goniatite. They are fairly common in some of the Miss. rocks of Eastern Ky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 After a second look, the rock type looks like sandstone;probably the Lee Fm. which would make it Penn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justforfun Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Thanks everyone for all the help. I have had this ammonite for about 6 months, wondering what it is. I'm bummer that it was not a snake but happy to know what it really is. Next question, the sandstone rock it is in weights 50 LBS+. Does anyone know a careful and safe way to remove a good portion of the unwanted stone? I was thinking a concrete blade in my cross-cut saw but it only cuts 2.5" deep, still leaving a good 'post' in the center after cutting all around. Knowing sandstone is relatively soft, would a long metal blade on a recip. saw work, too? Thanks for your help Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Thanks everyone for all the help. I have had this ammonite for about 6 months, wondering what it is. I'm bummer that it was not a snake but happy to know what it really is. Next question, the sandstone rock it is in weights 50 LBS+. Does anyone know a careful and safe way to remove a good portion of the unwanted stone? I was thinking a concrete blade in my cross-cut saw but it only cuts 2.5" deep, still leaving a good 'post' in the center after cutting all around. Knowing sandstone is relatively soft, would a long metal blade on a recip. saw work, too? Thanks for your help Robin The recip saw idea doesn't sound like it would work. You'd be bending a blade every 15 seconds when the tip hit. Why don't you try taking it to a granite counter top shop and ask if they can help. Who knows, some generous soul may say sure and set it up on a big marble cutter. As well, maybe a hardscape guy. I had a wall built and this guy had a stone saw with a 16 inch blade. Hey how about a headstone guy, guarentee they'd have something to cut it. But by all means, don't try something radical, that specimen is worth the extra trouble and a couple bucks. Good luck and good find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Flyguy, good suggestion about the counter tops dealer... hope that works. As an aside to this, the best way to make a very thick specimen become thinner is to own a very large saw with diamond blade, but those are expensive. So what I have found to work is to use my much smaller diamond saw and make a series of cuts parallel to each other and only one inch apart on the back side of the specimen. I can then either: use a chisel and pry the segments to crack them off or use a chisel and hammer to gently tap them off. If after the first complete series of cuts has all been taken off, I can repeat the process if necessary to remove more. If the matrix appears more fragile, the series of cuts can be made closer together thus requiring less stress when breaking off the sections. I sure hope this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 You didn't say how thick it is, but I definitely wouldn't try using a reciprocating saw. You just probably don't want it done with an oil-cooled blade because the oil will soak into the stone and stain it. Hopefully you can find something water cooled that will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy784 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Found a similar looking specimen,not the same but close. "Mantioceras sinuosum", very early ammonoid, late devonian. Suturing is quite similar, may point you in the right direction. I'll repeat my friend, don't try that recip saw. I kinda like N. AL. hunters idea. It'll take some time but just might work. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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