trilobiteruss Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok I recently was given this nice Fezouata Carpoid. I have seen several shown here in past and Peter, Malek and others have shown specimens, and discussed ID's and such. I find some of the threads now are missing the links to photos and such. Anyway this specimen is one such carpoid from the Ordovicain Fezouata in Morocco. Anyone had an ID on this carpoid, or are they even named yet? I have looked all over the internet and the only ones I come to are ones Malek showed on another site, but no specific ID on them there either. Thanks Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Interesting Russ... looks almost like a flatworm / annelid.... Here is a undescribed carpoid from Fezouata (Malek) https://pictures.lytro.com/pleecan/pictures/357966 Edited December 7, 2012 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Doesn't look like a carpoid to me. The "tail" is all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobiteruss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Doesn't look like a carpoid to me. The "tail" is all wrong. Yeah Carl I have no idea what it really is. It does not have the typical stelle (stem?) like the one pleecan just posted. It was called a carpoid in one site in which two more specimens were shown like this. But not close enough to show the structures like the photo I took of mine. It is interesting and most of the carpoids from the Fezouata are more like the ones pleecan shared. Well maybe someone will recognize what it is. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobiteruss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Interesting Russ... looks almost like a flatworm / annelid.... Here is a undescribed carpoid from Fezouata (Malek) https://pictures.lyt...pictures/357966 Peter, here is link to the site, it actually is some of Maleks material on another web page. photos 2 and 3 are like my specimen. Title is "Duslia/starfish/Fezouata Carpoids" Anyway only photo 4 is clearly another of the fossils that are clearly typical carpoids, and then 5 is a trilobite. Malek if you are reading this have you figured out what these are? This specimen originally came from Hasssane so it probably is stuff you two had but was given to me by person who got it from Hassane and then my friend gave to me recently as a gift. http://english.fossi...hp?TopicID=1451 And just for completeness here are the two specimens from th link above of whatever this is (carpoid or worm) Edited December 7, 2012 by trilobiteruss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobiteruss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 What ever these are mine and perhaps the other two of Maleks imagesa are the only specimens I can find in my searching all over the internet for this fauna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hi Russ, From Van Roy et al. 2010: described as a 'possible stalked barnacle'. The preservation is quite different but it could be the same organism. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobiteruss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Hi Russ, From Van Roy et al. 2010: described as a 'possible stalked barnacle'. The preservation is quite different but it could be the same organism. What do you think? Looks close in some ways at least the foot or what ever you call that in a barnacle. My problem is with the body part which does not have the "shell" like carapace or whatever, more elongate and these seem to be kind of sub round with no distict growth lines. I had run across these once and wonderd about that as another on a magazine article on this fauna said that. More things to ponder Scott, Thanks Maybe mine and these others are looking not from a side but dorsal or ventral like view which could be more of the round shape... hmmmm russ Edited December 7, 2012 by trilobiteruss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobiteruss Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Here is a plate from article on barnacle from Fezouata site. It was on a Japanese site, First the plate: Here is site, discusses several other paleozoic barnacles.... For now I think Scott had the right idea and the stalk of the animal looks like mine alot. Now the shell (called plates) is not obvious in my specimen or the other two from Malek so jury out a bit on this.. russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Try asking Dr Joe Botting on his web site.. as he is one of the authors and authority on Fezouata lagertatte biota.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araucaria1959 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Very interesting specimen. Perhaps something new that needs description? How large is your specimen (compared to the barnacle)? It could also be helpful to see more pictures from that specimen from several parts of the body or several directions. The "shell" of the "body" seems to be broken or divided into several pieces, but I cannot see clearly defined plates as I would expect in an echinoderm. On the other hand, there is a clearly visible "midline" all along the "tail" of your specimen that seems to be absent in the "stem" of the barnacle shown above. This is only a hypothesis, but your specimen reminds me a little bit of Vetulicolia or perhaps something else from the chordate or vertebrate stem line? The Fezouata biota have already yielded several "survivors" that were thought until then to be extinct since the cambrian, so one can consider the possibility of a survivorship of something from the chordate or vertebrate stem line? araucaria1959 Edited December 7, 2012 by araucaria1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Very interesting specimen. Perhaps something new that needs description? How large is your specimen (compared to the barnacle)? It could also be helpful to see more pictures from that specimen from several parts of the body or several directions. On the other hand, there is a clearly visible "midline" all along the "tail" of your specimen that seems to be absent in the "stem" of the barnacle. This is only a hypothesis, but your specimen reminds me a little bit of Vetulicolia or perhaps something else from the chordate or vertebrate stem line? The Fezouata biota have already yielded several "survivors" that were thought until then to be extint since the cambrian, so one can consider the possibility of a survivorship of something from the chordata or vertebrate stem line? araucaria1959 Perhaps another enigmatic Problematica? It also reminds me of this stalked creature from the Burgess Shale: Siphusauctum gregarium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 One might also look to Chengjiang biota for clues.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think it is a priapulid worm... inverted colours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I think it is a priapulid worm... This is my leaning, too (inexpert though I am). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trilobiteruss Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Thanks everyone, this is getting interesting... I guess I need to learn more about priapulid worms now too russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theosmom Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 This organism has tentatively been called "Plasiocystis." I agree that it doesn't bear any of the "normal" carpoid characteristics. I haven't seen anything about the higher taxonomy yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araucaria1959 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Google search for Plasiocystis yields nothing. Maybe it's just being described and awaits publication? (I made this experience with a plant fossil for which I got a name from a specialist, but didn't find anything about that in Google until there was a report on that new taxon on a congress). araucaria1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Could be a placeholder or form-taxon. Plesio being the prefix for a similar type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hi Russ, Just stumbled on "Plasiacystis" ...not sure if this fits your specimen but the corrected spelling uncovered this PDF: LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Very interesting Interesting paper but does not really look like his specimen, no evidence of plates that are very distinct in Plasiacystis. Not really convinced that this is a carpoid or a cystoid but regardless is a superb fossil that I definately wish was in my collection.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araucaria1959 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I hope someone will find the answer someday --- and let us know. I have also problems to accept that specimen as an echinoderm of any kind - since I don't see any plates too. This is one of the two most fascinating fossils I've ever seen in the fossilforum (the other one is the gigantic claw-like dinosaur fossil from Marocco - 110 cm long, another unsolved problem). araucaria1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hi Russ, From Van Roy et al. 2010: described as a 'possible stalked barnacle'. The preservation is quite different but it could be the same organism. What do you think? Were there barnacles that far back? When is the earliest undisputed barnacle? Not to contradict the experts, but this one reminded me of a brachiopod from Chengjiang.. Maybe those plates are just cracks in one of the valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araucaria1959 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hello Wrangellian, you show us a great and remarkable specimen from Chengjiang, but it is not a barnacle. It is the brachiopod Lingulella chengjiangensis JIN, HOU and WANG 1993 with a preserved pedicle. Beautiful! araucaria1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's what I was trying to say - the specimen Piranha linked looks like a brachiopod akin to that Lingulella. I don't know what Russ' thing is but am interested to find out so am watching this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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