Uk Pre Cambrian Fossils....found !

[DE&i]

Im planning a trip to Bradgate park in Charnwood forest UK to look for the elusive fossil Charnia , has anyone come across one before !

Regards,

Darren.

Edited October 24, 2013 by DarrenElliot

[Auspex]

Charnia, as in Ediacaran? I wish you good luck!

[JohnJ]

Darren, if you find one be sure to chronicle...um, tell us about it here.

A Precambrian fossil would be an incredible find.

[Fossildude19]

For those, (like me), who aren't familiar with Charnia.:

A LINK

According to the Wiki article, the original site is a protected fossil site now?

Regards,

EDIT: This Article has a diagram of open access quarries in the area.

I guess this is where you will be looking, Darren?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Fossildude19

[Kosmoceras]

Hi Darren, I have heard that the fossils are not easy to find and you would need an expert to take you round to show you the spot(s). You would not be able to collect any yourself as it is an SSSI but you may be able to take a cast if you find some. I have a PDF on my computer about fossils at Charnwood forest but it is too large to upload. If you send me a PM with your email I will send you a copy.

[painshill]

Hi Darren

They are there to be found, along with a whole host of other cool pre-Cambrian stuff, but difficult to spot, even though in some cases they are exposed in plain sight on large slabs of bedrock. They tend to be in very low relief and you need the light to be at an angle, so dawn to early morning or late afternoon to dusk gives you the best chance of spotting them. Sadly, one of the easiest ways to spot good locations is by the crude and often unsuccessful attempts people have made to chisel them out – protected status or not. The responsible thing to do – apart from taking photographs - is to make casts, as Thomas suggests. Often a cast in a single colour of plain material will show the relief better than the original specimen anyway.

No-one (me included) is going to give you exact locations. Sorry. The Wiki article linked above by Fossildude has some good clues as well as notes on the ownership/protection status of the sites and permissions needed for access.

I have also sent you by PM another link that may be useful. Again, there are no precise locations given but there are many photographs – including some location pictures - which may be helpful, and also some notes on making casts.

In May this year, the British Geological Survey completed a programme to “protect” the fossils in Charnwood Forest by replicating all of the major occurrences of pre-Cambrian biota using hi-def silicone casting to make replicas. The fossils themselves have been left in place and will ultimately weather away. During the programme they found over 1,000 new specimens, of which around 20% were new species. There’s a link to an interesting pdf here (small document but slow download)… don’t know if it’s the same pdf that Thomas referred to:

http://www.leics.gov.uk/charnwood_forest_2_charnwood_fossils_latest_research_developments.pdf

Don’t forget to visit the New Walk Museum in Leicester. The casts made by the BGS are now also on display there.

Edited September 12, 2013 by painshill

[DE&i]

Thanks guys this is going to be a great visit I’m really looking forward to blowing the cobwebs off hiking around one of the many marked out trails. I’ll take some photos of the geology to add to my report back and if Charnia should reveil itself to me that would be a bonus!

So I guess the question is what casting kit would you carry in your essentials bag?

Regards,

Darren.

Edited September 12, 2013 by D&E

[Welsh Wizard]

Darren

There is a really good thread on the UK Discuss Fossils Forum. I've posted the link below:

http://www.discussfossils.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1972&KW=Charnia&PN=1&SID=czdaf1cfa6b84e46bfb9afcfa651131e&title=ediacaran-biota-uk-equivalent-charnia-et-al

Good luck

Nick

Edited September 12, 2013 by Welsh Wizard

[DE&i]

Darren

There is a really good thread on the UK Discuss Fossils Forum. I've posted the link below:

http://www.discussfossils.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1972&KW=Charnia&PN=1&SID=czdaf1cfa6b84e46bfb9afcfa651131e&title=ediacaran-biota-uk-equivalent-charnia-et-al

Good luck

Nick

Thanks Nick,

Your post is a case of two great minds think a like ive just read that thread and so glad i did....

Regards,

Darren.

[fossilcrazy]

I have an old post about making realistic Precambrian casts.

The later part of this string describes copying in detail. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/23859-when-is-a-fossil-not-really-a-fossil/

[DE&i]

I have an old post about making realistic Precambrian casts.

The later part of this string describes copying in detail. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/23859-when-is-a-fossil-not-really-a-fossil/

Thats a great thread do you think you could explain in laymans term for a novice like my self.

Regards,

Darren.

[fossilcrazy]

Thats a great thread do you think you could explain in laymans term for a novice like my self.

Regards,

Darren.

Darren, If you have any specific questions please PM me and I'll try to explain better.

[DE&i]

Hi everyone,

Weather permitting in going to Charnwood forest next Wednesday would anyone know where i can source this product http://biofoamimpression.com/# here in the UK.

Regards,

Darren.

Edit. Its suggested from this reference to view the fossils in oblique sunlight what does that mean .

The fossil-bearing bedding plane covers an area of about 25 m2 and on it some fifty fossil impressions have been found, though some are very faint and difficult to see except in good oblique sunlight (about 4.15 pm in September is the best time). This bedding plane shows the typical mode of preservation of fossils in Charnwood Forest, as low-relief (ie. ~1 mm or less) impressions on upper bedding surfaces. The impressions have resulted from moderately soft-bodied organisms coming to rest on the silts, with fairly rapid burial pressing them down into the sediment. Counterparts on the under surfaces of overlying beds have not yet been found. Little is seen of the fossils’ three-dimensional shape and no hard parts are preserved, although the preservation of some discs indicates that they may have been formed of a stiff, or leathery, organic substance.

Regards,

Darren.

Edited October 16, 2013 by DarrenElliot

[Wrangellian]

Oblique sunlight? That means when the light is at a low angle to the bedding plane which accentuates the relief with shadows. As it says, the sun is at a good angle for this at 4:15pm. On the other hand, when the light source is aiming down perpendicular to the bedding plane, there are no shadows and any fossils that are low-relief and display no color differences can be practically invisible.

Looking forward to your report!

[DE&i]

Oblique sunlight? That means when the light is at a low angle to the bedding plane which accentuates the relief with shadows. As it says, the sun is at a good angle for this at 4:15pm. On the other hand, when the light source is aiming down perpendicular to the bedding plane, there are no shadows and any fossils that are low-relief and display no color differences can be practically invisible.

Looking forward to your report!

Thank you so much thats a great pointer youve given me....i really hope the weather is kind and not a wash out , if i cant get the kit out im steadily amassing ( ive now also got some Polymer-clay coming in the post to take some impressions ) ill have to give my camera a good run for its money.

The place i intend to park our car is called Hunts Hill , within a 5 minute walk you are faced with some rock formations called the Blackbrook Beds the geological age of these rocks are Precambrian...so im guessing some photos here would be a good start.

Regards,

Darren.

[DE&i]

Hi everyone,

Let’s bring you up to speed with this fossil hunting trip , I’ve been planning it since I first posted this topic on the 12th of September and our now scheduled to arrive at Bradgate Park tomorrow on the 24th of October between the hours of 3.00pm and 5.00pm GMT.

Weather forecast is sunny with no rain!

I’ll be taking the full recommended kit of some sort of description advised from those on this thread plus all the notes given on how to tackle this elusive fossil….so thank you again.

I suppose you’d have to be a trained geologist to understand everything about these ancient rocks, but I’m guessing anyone who is prepared to use the powers of observation and deduction should come away with something for their efforts.

I’ll be posting photos as usual live to my Out In The Field link as we walk along our un-guided walk!

And then later to TFF.

Regards,

Darren.

[Wrangellian]

[DE&i]

All be it brief the fossil hunting trip was a success which I can tell you without doubt was a huge relief for it was certainly like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Now with rocks of a Precambrian age, there are very very few fossils, most of them of uncertain bio-logical status. Charnwood Forest is one of the very few places in Britain where Precambrian fossils have been found; a few traces have been found in Bradgate Park, but they are barely recognisable as I was to find out.

They include traces of early forms of algae or sea-weeds and of animals related to jellyfish, I’ve tried to identify some of them myself but others are really hard to know where to start.

This is the approach to the site the yellow arrow indicates where I left my family to play in some old castle ruins while, the red arrow indicates the root I took to the site.

Geology of site :

Geological age : Precambrian , Major Rock Groups , Maple series , Rock formations , Beacon Beds.

Here are some inclined bedrocks that I scoured over but it was this one in particular I had some great results with.

Here are some photos of the ones I’ve given my best shot at identification.

Edited October 24, 2013 by DarrenElliot

[DE&i]

And these are the ones that I’m struggling with.

I’m sorry if anyone tried to follow me on my Out In The Field link unfortunately there was no internet signal up there to transmit my photos to the link.

p.s. a special thank you to Wranglellian for the help in the lighting department ant to Kosmoceras for his guides and to the Welsh Wizard for the link to help me with the I.D.s.

p.p.s. I tried to take some casts but it was a disaster to be honest , the clay I took was just too soft , every time I tried to remove the clay from the fossils the clay came away to sticky...I’ll try again next time I go.

Regards,

Darren.

[DE&i]

More unknowns ;

[DE&i]

Sorry three more unknowns :

Regards,

Darren.

[Auspex]

Brilliant finds, Darren! That big slab will be there when you get the casting supplies sorted out.

[Ridgehiker]

Really fascinating. Thanks for sharing....enjoying the photos.

Someday plan a trip to Newfoundland...a hop, skip across the ocean. Just south of St Johns is 'Mistaken Point' with an incredible display of similar aged fossils. It's also just a neat natural area with lots of good hiking.

[TMNH]

Awesome trip! Those are incredible fossils, I envy your proximity to a locality like that (someday I'll make it to Mistaken Point!).

At a glance, picture 2 in post # 19 looks like Bradgatia http://media.rcip-chin.gc.ca/ac/rom1912/Bradgatia-ROM-36500-JBC_2.jpg. Picture 3 in post #21 could be one as well. Some of the disk shaped fossils (e.g. post #21, picture 1) may be holdfasts http://www.discussfossils.com/forum/uploads/1040/primho11.jpg.

[Wrangellian]

Great report + photos!

I was thinking the same thing re IDs as TMNH.. but it's so hard to tell - erosion has really taken its toll. I wonder what these looked like when they were freshly exposed.....