Collecting Partial Specimens

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

Often when I look at fossil collecting sites online, the collectors display their various finds for the weekend/trip, and I've noticed that they will have complete specimens of a particular species and partial specimens of the same species. Sometimes, they only have small fragments of the specimen. This is specially true for shark teeth and ammonites. What I'm wondering is "Why?".

I can understand picking up everything then sorting through it at the site, but I do not understand bringing the fragments home (unless of course it is a fragment of a new species for your collection and you have nothing better). I also can understand keeping a large interesting partial, like the complete head of a large trilobite (I just collected a 4.25 inch wide whole head myself).

Just thought that I'd post this to see what others think. I believe in leaving as much at the site as possible for others to see/collect. I do pick all complete specimens in the hopes of having them for trading purposes.

[ebrocklds]

i collect partials to give to school groups and children. those who will probably loose or destroy them. i also have several partials of rare things but that is the exception.

Brock

[geofossil]

N.Al.hunter,

I have a similar philosophy. I only collect a 'bit' of something if it's unique in some way as a complete trilo shield, unusual marking, etc. Most other 'stuff' we refer to as 'driveway gravel'....my experience over the decades is some rockhound friends and fossil friends pile and store up poor specimens just to have them tossed out when they kick the bucket. How many fragments of type 'x' leaf does someone need?...and who the heck wants it if, even you yourself, kept it wrapped up in a box under the stairs because one day....one day what? :huh:

We're enthusiastic gardeners and the garden if full of odds and ends from rockhounding trips from younger days. 'Ok' dino vertebrae we wouldn't pick up today... chunks of shiny mica...small slabs of brachs and so on. don't ask me why I collected about 15 stromatolite colonies :lol: how about a hundred of so large inoceramus bivalves.. Possessed. I suppose, with some collecting addiction.

These days, my collecting bag is often my pocket. I'll pick up a few nice dino teeth and maybe a small raptor toe bone, etc. Other than that it has to be better than some specimen in the collection. I'll higrade what I have. Now and then I'll pick up a backpack of stuff to give away but that's more an excuse to get my collecting fix. What I've found being selective does is break my fossil hunting pattern and look at strata, etc. a bit differently. I'm less interested in 'the loot' and have more perspective to find 'different' things.

One false expectation is that some museum will be gushing with joy if you donate specimens. Some may like complete quality display specimens but other than that it's junk to them. Most have no money, knowledge or space to curate what they already have. As one curator once told me, they politely accept accept native arrowheads, etc. from donators, write out a certificate of appreciation, and when the donator leaves, toss the points into a barrel with five thousand others. Folks also assume there are teams of paleontologists waiting to study 'new specimens'. That's the biggest myth of all. If the phyla and age aren't fully documented and specific to their niche such as 'Upper Permain brachs of wherever', etc.then they have zero interest and the odds are no one in the world is studying 'Lower Permian Brachs'. More driveway gravel after donated.

One positive reason to collect a piece of crud is to experiment on it. I like to use acids and so on and, if you have a throw-away specimen, you don't mind destroying it to see what might work on a good specimen. Things like bits of ammonites, brachs, corals, etc. can also be sliced and polished to help ID 'the keepers'.

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

Good points. I too will collect a fragment or two when I know that I'll need to experiment with the preparation aspect. I also find that being very selective makes me focus more on the search for new species. I collect everything, no specialty. The idea of collecting fragments/poorer quality specimens to give to schools is something I did once. The school was having a fund raising day, and I donated a couple of thousand shark teeth and hundreds of other fossils that were placed into a very large pile of beach sand for the kiddos to "dig" out and "find" for keeps. It was actually very popular. Also, I'd like to say that I am no fossil collecting saint, just figured out years ago that I did not need to keep the trash.

[Guest Cris]

I'm with Brock. At the fossil shows here, they have a large sandbox that they fill with fossils and let the kids sort through... I figure when I get a coffee can full of teeth I don't need, I'll donate it.. I'm also finding a few hundred teeth every couple hours, so stopping to examine every tooth would really put a dent in the amount of good, high quality stuff for the day. I've also found some rare teeth that I didn't know about until I got home and really examined them good.

[Guest Nicholas]

I currently collect everything I can, partials, full, low quality, high quality it doesn't really matter. I like doing the research behind each fossil, trying to name it, location, etc... It gives me something to do during the winter when there is no hunting. However, when I get to a point where I have so many partials I have no need for I'll just sell them for cheap in a bulk package for new collectors or even give them away. As of now my collection is small so each partial is something new to research, and sometimes they can be more fascinating than full pieces.

[tomclark]

Same here, I don't bring home partials anymore unless unusual/rare. Same goes with artifacts.

In my early years I brought it ALL home and have left many buckets and heaps where I've lived, LOL.

I don't even pick up most shark teeth unless they are over one inch at least, or drilled, muhaha.

[Gatorman]

SWEET!! :Thumbs-up:

[worthy 55]

I bring it all home, one day I'll make a nice rock/fossil garden !

[kauffy]

Great topic, I usually pick up everything I find but im starting to move away from that beacus I pick up a lot of junk thats just not worth it and end up having more fossils than i can handle!

I would like to find a location that has lots of well preserved little fossils like teeth or ammonite or shells OR ALL THREE!! :lol: then i could pick up the well preserved ones and store them easilly.

[Roz]

I have heard that before about museums, either never studying, storing away in a basement,

or pretty much tossing aside. It may not be true with every museum but I would think the

majority. IMO

The only I donated to a professional was a new echinoid , so he could do a paper on it. That

is the only time I would do something like that. Don't like the idea of donating something that the collector

would consider first rate, never to be seen by anyone. I wish if they had no intention of studying or

displaying, that they would just tell that to the one donating. Save a lot of grief and the collector would still

have his/her fossil.

As for the fossils for kids, I think it is such a good idea. The DPS accepts fossils to give

away to kids at shows..

[Brendan]

Most of what I have are little partials I got in mail order. They have descriptions and ages, so they're good for showing to kids. The only big fossil I have is a stromatolite one I found at a relative's house when we collected stones for my mom's flower garden wall. That one is probably early Cambrian like the stromatolites on display at some outdoor museums near my home. The little ones I got in the mail order are mostly Paleozoic pieces like a trilobite body and some Mesozoic ones like a small dinosaur bone and some Cenozoic one like shark teeth.

[geofossil]

Re fossils for kids. It's a good idea and I do it too. No kid leaves our home without a dinosaur vertebra and a few other fossils.

Off topic: 'However'...I do enjoy talking paleontology, etc. with adults or older teens. A lot of fossil activity is family or kid oriented and it gets a bit tiresome. My friends joke that the first thing out of many parents' mouth when seeing collections is 'my son would love this'. Ya, but what about you? Have you no science bug in your make up? It's great when an 'adult' gets inspired and attends a paleo meeting....wants to go collecting and so on. We like swapping stories, examing specimens and so on. Sure, it's good if kids find fossils in a sand pile but it's often just one more activity for the day....like face painting or singsong. There's no downside to giving kids fossils but I enjoy the science of paleontology and not too keen on it being lowered so often to be child entertainment. (old guy rant )

[Northern Sharks]

I have heard that before about museums, either never studying, storing away in a basement,

or pretty much tossing aside. It may not be true with every museum but I would think the

majority. IMO

The only I donated to a professional was a new echinoid , so he could do a paper on it. That

is the only time I would do something like that. Don't like the idea of donating something that the collector

would consider first rate, never to be seen by anyone. I wish if they had no intention of studying or

displaying, that they would just tell that to the one donating. Save a lot of grief and the collector would still

have his/her fossil.

As for the fossils for kids, I think it is such a good idea. The DPS accepts fossils to give

away to kids at shows..

Talking about stored in the basement, here's a neat story. At the Royal Ontario Museum recently, someone started doing a massive puzzle. Some bones were found in a corner. Then more in another corner. Then some on a shelf etc. When all were found and assembled, the museum had the largest more or less complete dinosaur in the country and the only "real" Barosaurus mounted in the world. It's about 90 feet long and quite a sight to see

[Roz]

Wow, what a story! Yep in the basement but at least they got it together, in more ways than one!

That certainly tied in. At least that story ended happily.

If I am not mistaken you are from Canada. Would you happen to know a collector "Joe" from Alberta. If

I remember correctly, both he and his wife are geologists. He used to post on the California forum and am trying to contact him but he never posted on there with an email address. Just on the outside chance you might know him..

I guess that is like you naming someone in the US and asking if I know them.

[Northern Sharks]

I'm Canadian alright, but I'm as close to Alberta as Buffalo NY is to Montana. Can't help you with your search

[Uncle Siphuncle]

I don't grab everything like I used to, but if I pick something up and find myself giving it more than a casual glance I bag it. I've made some pretty good finds after the fact once things got soaked and brushed in my garage. I give away B and C grade fossils by the hundreds of pounds and take the charitable donation for them. However even this is becoming a chore. I think that with experience comes less space left to deal with combined with a more discriminating eye which in turn ultimately leads to fewer specimens heading home per trip.

[geofossil]

Talking about stored in the basement, here's a neat story. At the Royal Ontario Museum recently, someone started doing a massive puzzle. Some bones were found in a corner. Then more in another corner. Then some on a shelf etc. When all were found and assembled, the museum had the largest more or less complete dinosaur in the country and the only "real" Barosaurus mounted in the world. It's about 90 feet long and quite a sight to see

Ha!

Here's another. Many Jurassic dino fossils originally collected in Utah were eventually stored under the seats of the stadium at BYU in Provo. AND....records lost and nobody knows what's what. The fossils are wrapped in plaster jackets and it takes a tremendous amount of work to open and pick at even one. No purpose without any records. They've become no more than landfill.

[Guest solius symbiosus]

I too used to collect everything I came across. Anymore, I don't even pick up complete pieces unless they are LARGE adults, or very small juveniles. Or, of course, rare.

[Roz]

Ha!

Here's another. Many Jurassic dino fossils originally collected in Utah were eventually stored under the seats of the stadium at BYU in Provo. AND....records lost and nobody knows what's what. The fossils are wrapped in plaster jackets and it takes a tremendous amount of work to open and pick at even one. No purpose without any records. They've become no more than landfill.

What a waste, sad! Wish they would have given them away to a good home!

[ebrocklds]

Ha!

Here's another. Many Jurassic dino fossils originally collected in Utah were eventually stored under the seats of the stadium at BYU in Provo. AND....records lost and nobody knows what's what. The fossils are wrapped in plaster jackets and it takes a tremendous amount of work to open and pick at even one. No purpose without any records. They've become no more than landfill.

Geo

this is not entirely true. the famouse under the stadium fossils are not lost or without data. i know because they are no longer there. i spent several months moving what was left under the stadium to a new warehouse that was built to store the large collection of sauropod bones the BYU has. many of the jackets (meaning all but a very small amount) had field numbers still on them that corresponded to the original field notes, some dating back to the 50's collected by Jim Jensen in Argentina. 95% or better of them have now been prepared and stabalized and propery stored and recoreded so that they are available for research. if you get the chance and have an interest in sauropods it is definatley the place to go, they have more than enough to satisfy, believe me i had to move them all to the new structure. it took weeks.

[Ramo]

I find tons of partial shark teeth, and collect them all. I give a lot away also. They way I look at it is if I don't pick it up it will be lost forever probably. I'd rather have it in a collection than weather away. The odds of something becoming fossilzed in the first place is so remote, I hate to see them turn to dust. I guess if I was collecting where someone else had a chance of finding what I left behind I might leave them.

If its been laying there for the last 80 million years and no one else has found it yet, I better pick it up!!!

[JimInAugusta]

If its been laying there for the last 80 million years and no one else has found it yet, I better pick it up!!!

I get a huge thrill holding something that no human has ever touched before. Dr Who may have touched it but he doesnt count because he is sometimes human and sometimes a Time Lord. Dont call me a Geek for knowing this because a real Geek would have written it in Klingon.

http://www.kli.org/tlh/pIqaD.html

Jim

[Gatorman]

Hahaha Klingons are awesome

[hybodus]

Cool topic... If I consider myself an "expert" on certain species from certain sites, I will pass on the common species - what would I do with hundreds of the exact same species from the same location? (unless I want to try to reconstruct a shark dentition...)

If the locality is not common to me (construction site that will go away quickly, unusaul species and so on) I will collect as much as possible, keep what I want and trade or give away the rest.

My personal rule is to collect what I need, then a little more for trade.