How do dinosaurs get their name?

[DE&i]

Hi everyone

I know some dinosaurs can get there name from people who find them and where they are found. But why do we use Greek and Latin words as well. Why don't we call them in English so we can easily read the words. And not use really old hard words to say.

Regards

Elliot

[Troodon]

TraditioN

Edit: I have the same complaint

http://sciencelearn.org.nz/Contexts/Hidden-Taonga/Science-Ideas-and-Concepts/Naming-species

Edited January 11, 2016 by Troodon

[DE&i]

Thank you Troodon we read your link. In my book planet dinosaurs there is a translation for the dinosaurs names. I think it would be easier to use the translation name first and the science name second.

I like sarcosuchus imperator the translation is flesh crocodile emperor

Regards

Elliot

[Troodon]

Ha ha love it, now how can we convince scientist

[jpc]

In the old days it was common for men of science to be trained in the classics... Ancient Greek and Latin. Since no one really spoke these languages, it gave no one the distinct advantage that you would have if they named them in English, or any other language. If scientists wanted to make names more readable to the people, they would use Chinese. More people speak Chinese than English by a long shot. Anyway, that is why. In more recent years, there has been a trend away from hoity toity extinct langauges, so we have names like Drinker and lots of Chinese names for dinosaurs that make the Greek and Latin seem easy.

Going back to before dinosaurs were even named, Linnaeus invented the naming and taxonomy of animal species used Latin because it was a language that learned men all over the world could understand. As I said, as a scientist, it was expected that you would know at least a bit of Latin. Using Latin names, a scientist in England and one in France could more easily communicate with each other. Also an animal that lives in many countries with different languages would have as many names as there are languages in its range. With Latin, it gets only one name. Imagine if Linnaeus had the same attitude as you...Let's use my own language... we would all be using Danish names.

[DE&i]

Hello jpc

Thank you for your really good answer I can understand that very much. But what I mean is if you went to school and I got to we would first learn the dinosaurs name in our own language.Then as we got brainier we could learn the scientific name in Latin. So if you.found the dinosaur and name it in Danish words. Then I would translate that into English words. But it would also have a second name In latin. Does that sound OK

Regards

Elliot

Edited January 12, 2016 by DarrenElliot

[LordTrilobite]

I've always found this tongue twisting name hilarious.

Opisthocoelicaudia, which is a sauropod dinosaur.

In the old days it was common for men of science to be trained in the classics... Ancient Greek and Latin. Since no one really spoke these languages, it gave no one the distinct advantage that you would have if they named them in English, or any other language. If scientists wanted to make names more readable to the people, they would use Chinese. More people speak Chinese than English by a long shot. Anyway, that is why. In more recent years, there has been a trend away from hoity toity extinct langauges, so we have names like Drinker and lots of Chinese names for dinosaurs that make the Greek and Latin seem easy.

Going back to before dinosaurs were even named, Linnaeus invented the naming and taxonomy of animal species used Latin because it was a language that learned men all over the world could understand. As I said, as a scientist, it was expected that you would know at least a bit of Latin. Using Latin names, a scientist in England and one in France could more easily communicate with each other. Also an animal that lives in many countries with different languages would have as many names as there are languages in its range. With Latin, it gets only one name. Imagine if Linnaeus had the same attitude as you...Let's use my own language... we would all be using Danish Swedish names.

Recently more local languages have been used to name new animals. Like Tiktaalik, Balaur or Qi yi.

Edited January 12, 2016 by LordTrilobite

[KellyEarth132]

Great question DarrenElliot ! Too tongue twisting for me. I name them how they appear to me
Yes the Latin was great when we all were taught it !

[Ptychodus04]

I've always found this tongue twisting name hilarious.

Opisthocoelicaudia, which is a sauropod dinosaur.

This name says a lot about the animal and what made it distinct. It is saying that the tail vertebrae have a ball and socket joint with the socket part facing towards the head.

[jpc]

Hello jpc

Thank you for your really good answer I can understand that very much. But what I mean is if you went to school and I got to we would first learn the dinosaurs name in our own language.Then as we got brainier we could learn the scientific name in Latin. So if you.found the dinosaur and name it in Danish words. Then I would translate that into English words. But it would also have a second name In latin. Does that sound OK

Regards

Elliot

Elliott-

Got it. How about this for an idea. I work at a museum here in Wyoming. Our education guy often does exactly what you describe. He makes up English names based on the Latin names of beasts. We often use these on our signage. This is fairly easy for the Greek and Latin names (he has a translating dictionary for both), but for some more obscurely named beasts you have to go the scientific paper where it was named. Modern papers are very good at listing the reason for naming it... older ones not so good... they just assumed the reader knew how to say 'Thunder Lizard' in Latin. So, go ahead and make up a name based on the Latin name. I bet you can get some interesting discussions and answers here if you get stumped.

PS a few animals I have been involved with were named not with Latin or Greek, but with local languages. The one named after an Inuit name... I can't pronounce it.

[stoodleypike]

There’s nothing hoity-toity about giving all living things two names based on Latin. It’s a way of ensuring that scientists know which organism is being referred to no matter what language they speak. The first name refers to the animal’s (or plant’s or bacterium’s) genus. The second to its species. It’s called the binomial system. Using it avoids any possibility of confusion. Biology would be impossible without such a system.

P.S. Linnaeus was Swedish not Danish, and scientists don’t (as a rule) name their discoveries after themselves. Professionally, that would be considered very bad form!

[Killclaw]

I thing Paleontologists just don't have the flair they used to in assigning names to new dinosaurs, they don't roll off the tongue or have the iconic sounding to them like with the classic dino discoveries or even of the '80's, they've just become clunky (Tatankaceratops), unimaginative (Eo-anything, Denversaurus, Utahraptor, Dakotaraptor.........) forgettable (any of the dozen or so beginning with X etc) or just plain stupid (Haya, Hippodraco?? not to mention any of those superfluous names reassigned from Iguanodon)

Sorry just a pet peev

Edited January 13, 2016 by Killclaw

[Auspex]

I kinda' miss "Trachodon", now largely abandoned as a taxon. The refinement of our knowledge, however, can be traced in part through name changes, so it's all good.

[jpc]

There’s nothing hoity-toity about giving all living things two names based on Latin. It’s a way of ensuring that scientists know which organism is being referred to no matter what language they speak. The first name refers to the animal’s (or plant’s or bacterium’s) genus. The second to its species. It’s called the binomial system. Using it avoids any possibility of confusion. Biology would be impossible without such a system.

P.S. Linnaeus was Swedish not Danish, and scientists don’t (as a rule) name their discoveries after themselves. Professionally, that would be considered very bad form!

My bad on Linnaeus. But I did not mean to say that the binomial system is hoity toity, just the use if dead languages is hoity toity. I, for one, like using local langauges to name critters... Pakasuchus, for example is Swahili paka (=cat) and suchus, classic Greek for crocodile. Of course Swahili is easy for us English speakers... names in Chinese and Inuit can be tough form our perspective. I am also a fan of naming fossil species for people like donors and landowners, but I draw the line at corpororate sponsors. Another thing I wish they would pubish more (esp in the past) is how to pronounce the name... is it para-sore-oh-LOPH-us or para-sore-AWL-oh-phus?

[ashcraft]

Common names are a problem. What is a moose? What is an elk? Different continents, different creatures. Gardeners almost always speak in "linnaean", to avoid that problem. Not just naming either, say Mississippian to different people, and you could think person from Mississippi, the time period full of crinoids, or the time period of the Mound Builder Americans.

I think if we call everything Brent, it would be easier on everybody.

Brent Ashcraft

[DE&i]

And I will find a new species of dinosaur and name it what I think it looks like in English and tell the world. Then if you like you can name it in the language where you live if its easier for you. Then if scientists want to name it in Latin then that is OK with me.

Regards

Elliot

Edited January 12, 2016 by DarrenElliot

[ashcraft]

And I will find a new species of dinosaur and name it what I think it looks like in English and tell the world. Then if you like you can name it in the language where you live if its easier for you. Then if scientists want to name it in Latin then that is OK with me.

Regards

Elliot

You have my permission, which along with $.75 will get you a pepsi in the teacher's lounge.

Brent Ashcraft

[Ptychodus04]

You have my permission, which along with $.75 will get you a pepsi in the teacher's lounge.

Brent Ashcraft

You had me until Pepsi...

[PFOOLEY]

I thing Paleontologists just don't have the flair they used to in assigning names to new dinosaurs, they don't roll off the tongue or have the iconic sounding to them like with the classic dino discoveries...

What about Ziapelta sanjuanensis? That sounds cool.

[PRK]

A buddy of mine majored in paleo at Berkeley in the late '60s and named a couple of brachiopods.

I can't recall the genus name, but the special names were "zappii and jaggerensis"

[Auspex]

How 'bout Dracorex hogwartsia for a binomial that is both descriptive and culturally fun (not to mention Latinized).

Pretty memorable, no?

[Mediospirifer]

Heh. The name I was disappointed to learn was nomen dubium (disputed as to whether it's a new species or not, and whether it really was as large as originally claimed) was Seismosaurus. I think "Earth-shaking lizard" is a wonderful name for a large Jurassic sauropod!

But, some say it's really another Diplodocus.

[Auspex]

Heh. The name I was disappointed to learn was nomen dubium (disputed as to whether it's a new species or not, and whether it really was as large as originally claimed) was Seismosaurus. I think "Earth-shaking lizard" is a wonderful name for a large Jurassic sauropod!

But, some say it's really another Diplodocus.

Cheer up; we're getting Brontosaurus back!

[Killclaw]

Never got the fuss about 'Brontosaurus' anyway, I mean its pretty much become the archetypal dinosaur and if you happen to mention your passion for dinosaurs people with a vague awareness or affection for them always seem to immediately declare their fondness for 'brontosaurus' as their favourite dinosaur.

Why the fame though? OK so we all know American dinosaurs get the Hollywood exposure but you had Diplodocus that was much longer, Brachiosaurus a lot taller so what's special about good old Brontosaurus? I guess it all comes down to marketing and happening to have one's bones occupying a prominent position in a well known museum. I like the name 'Thunder Lizard' but that apart it is Mr average of the dinosaur world.

And Now I don't even have the satisfaction of being able to retort to the Bronto lovers ' well actually that dinosaur doesn't in fact exist'............sigh

[Auspex]

For kids in the 50's, the name was inspiring: "Brontosaurus". All the kids books translated it for the intended effect: "Thunder Lizard!". The awe and sense of wonder this inspired among the young Boomers guaranteed its star status.

Names do have power!