Pterosaur Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Hi everyone! I hope you all are spending the summer finding some really neat fossils. I am currently working on a commissioned illustration for FossilClaw, and am shooting to have a sketch up soon. However, we would like your opinion on the landscape and fauna... We are definite that there will be both woolly mammoth(s) and woolly rhino(s) in the scene, but we are not sure what other animals may have shared the same territory on a regular basis with these creatures. Initially, we were shooting to have a Cave bear in the scene, but given the different habitats (and altitudes) it has proven a challenge. What other animals would plausibly fit in the scene we are trying to depict? Megaloceros? Sabertooth? Bison? Wild Horses? Any other predators or interesting animals? The landscape will be steppes. Really appreciate your input!! -Lauren "I am a part of all that I have met." - Lord Alfred Tennyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guguita2104 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Hello!!! I'm neither an expert nor a pleistocene megafuana collector, but I think the wild horses should appear on your work. Look forward to see your piece of art. Regards, Guguita 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triceratops Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Wild horses sound good. How about a cave lion? 1 -Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amour 25 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Dire Wolf, Saber tooth,Giant Sloth. 1 Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Along with what the others have said, there are -- short faced bear, brown & black bears, moose, elk, auroch, antelope, long horn bison, lynx/bobcat, camel/lama, musk ox,giant beaver, otter and caribou. Then there are the smaller things like raccoons, skunk, badger, squirrels, rabbits, weasels, birds, mice, prairie dogs, gophers, snakes, lizards and amphibians. As for the flora I am not well versed in that area. That being said I will leave it to others to help there. Looking forward to seeing the finished panorama! Tony PS I believe that mammoth, wooly rhino and giant ground sloth (cave bear) have been found in the Labrea tar pits. Edited July 7, 2016 by ynot 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haventbaptized Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) Because of the woolly rhino(s) and woolly mammoth(s) I assume we are talking about Europe and Nothern Eurasia during the Pleistocene. The fauna that I suggest is more or less the same : aurochs, steppe bison, cave lion, cave bear, cave hyena, homotherium, elasmotherium, lynx, moose, elk, giant otter, leptobos, European Ice age Leopard, wolf, caribou and wild horses. Also, if you want you can put Homo neanderthalensis or Denisovans. I think that from all of the above you must certainly put in your illustration the hyena because It preyed on large mammals (primarily wild horses, steppe wisent and woolly rhinoceros), and was responsible for the accumulation of hundreds of large Pleistocene mammal bones in areas including horizontal caves, sinkholes, mud pits and muddy areas along rivers. As for the enviroment I suggest something similar to grasslands or tundra (The following habitats are found across the Woolly rhinoceros distribution and other Pleistocene animals range). The Pleistocene flora included : Oaks, Conifers, Beeches and Grasses. Look forard to see what you made I hope I helped you even a little bit. Edited July 7, 2016 by haventbaptized 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Hello, like haventbaptized mentioned, if you want to be precise, you should think about: which area at what age do you want to display. Landscapes and Nutriscapes (as well as the according fauna) are quite different in same time in the pyrenees, the British Channel or N Germany/Poland (e.g. the Schöningen swamps in M. Germ.) But I agree that the hyaenas and the reindeers are important at all in those faunas. But be carefull you display the right ecophenotype... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 There are also mountain lion, fox turtle, ferret, and mormot. Tony 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 No woolly rhinos in North America that I know of. I'm sure you've already seen Mauricio Anton's famous scene of a Late Pleistocene megafaunal assemblage in Spain. That would be a good place to start! (Link to image) -Joe 2 Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusFossils Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 A few hominids in the distance would be very cool, perhaps being chased by sabertooth. It would emphasize how this this time in history was not so long ago (geologically speaking), and yet we were still under the mercy of nature 1 Website: https://www.instagram.com/paleo_archives/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- “It is by no means an irrational fancy that, in a future existence, we shall look upon what we think our present existence, as a dream.” ― Edgar Allan Poe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 No woolly rhinos in North America that I know of. I'm sure you've already seen Mauricio Anton's famous scene of a Late Pleistocene megafaunal assemblage in Spain. That would be a good place to start! (Link to image) -Joe Wooly rhinos are not found in North America, but there was a north American native rhino I knew that there was a rhino found in the north American fauna, always thought it was the "wooly" one but apparently that is a misconception on My part. After looking at a fauna list for the Le Brea tar pits-- there were mammoth, mastodon and 3 species of ground sloth that were found there, but no rhino species. Tony 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haventbaptized Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Woolly Rhino was common throughout Northern Europe and Eastern Asia (especially in what is now Russia). In the latter part of the Pleistocene Period, the Woolly Rhino may have had the largest range of any known rhinoceros, living or extinct. The Woolly Rhinos frequently inhabited the same areas as Woolly Mammoths, however they apparently never managed to move across the Bering Strait (Bering Land Bridge) and extend their range into North America. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Rhinos (both true rhinoceroses and the so-called 'running rhinos') HAVE been around in North America since the Eocene but, for some reason, the entire lineage went extinct on the continent at the end of the Miocene (or early Pliocene depending on whose time-line you use). -Joe 1 Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pterosaur Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 AWESOME feedback, everyone! Thank you so much. (Sorry for the slow reply. I've been in the middle of a move this past week.) A little more context on the location, we were looking to do the scene in the Europe/Eurasia area, so that we could include the woolly rhino. I've been trying to understand what 'steppes' would have looked like back then (or just in general), so Mauricio Anton's ice age scene helps a lot in conjuring an image of what that would have looked like. Would this landscape have always had snow on the ground or might there have been a time when all was green? I'm not really familiar with the flora back then, and I'm also not sure what the seasons were like in the Pleistocene era and how the ice age affected that. Definitely still have some research to do there... Last question, what kind of interesting birds would have flown around at this time? Ideally, the birds that would make for an interesting composition would be large predators or cool looking flocks. I'd even go for the viewpoint of the whole scene being from the eyes of a single bird in flight or from the view of a bird(s) in a tree. I want to go for a different approach than what you typically see with these scenes, so I'm pretty open-minded. What about reptiles? I'll definitely keep you all in the loop with my progress, and I'll post a picture of the first sketch shortly. I've got a list of animals that you've kindly provided, and now it's just a matter of choosing who makes the cut and then arranging them. "I am a part of all that I have met." - Lord Alfred Tennyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triceratops Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Looking forward to seeing the initial sketches! In regards birds how about a giant swan? -Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Based on the fauna you're thinking about including, the so-called 'mammoth steppe' is likely going to be your landscape. There is actually a pretty good Wikipedia article on this at (link to Wikipedia article). Maurice Anton has done a number of Pleistocene 'mammoth steppe' scenes. Here's a link to another one: (link to picture). -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) from a 2000 NJG,but it might help http://www.rhinoresourcecenter.com/pdf_files/129/1293843582.pdf this contains a faunal list for the Eemian Edited July 11, 2016 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pterosaur Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Hello everyone! Thank you all again for all of the very helpful ideas and advice. I've put together a very rough sketch, and would love your feedback! I don't have many animals in there yet, but the landscape is mostly there along with a woolly rhino and a few mammoths. The mammoth closest to the foreground is supposed to be charging a predator(s). What do you think might fit well in that spot? Sabertooth? Hyena? Other? I would also like to add animals to the landscape in the background. Perhaps a herd of wild horses as some of you suggested? In general, do the animals look natural? How about foliage? Does the landscape look fitting and natural? Honestly, any suggestions are welcome and feedback is very appreciated! The first picture below shows my initial rough sketch: The second picture shows a more recent update to the mountains. More detail and structure: Sorry the pictures aren't fantastic. If you have trouble viewing let me know, and I'll try to do better! Thank you so much! "I am a part of all that I have met." - Lord Alfred Tennyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 What people like is very subjective. What your customer likes is paramount. To the number of subjects...I think less is more. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triceratops Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I agree with John, you don't want to overcrowd the scene. -Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Looks nice! If I may make a suggestion. The front horn of the woolly rhino should probably be a little thicker in the middle and tip. They scraped their horns on all sorts of things and it's thought that they might also dig up roots with them. So it should probably look a lot more blunted. The front edge is also often flattened, probably due to it scraping along the ground a lot. 2 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Claw Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 great ideas and feedback! looking forward to more opinions and ideas as I make my final choices over the next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Claw Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I really like the idea of reindeer and wild horses in the back ground and the predator maybe being dire wolves or hyenas since both would be take such large prey as pack hunters. Early humans as the predatory might be interesting also. I agree with John, we don’t want to over crowd the image but every steppe depiction I have ever seen shows abundant wild life so we don’t want it too empty either. I will have to trust the artist eye to find the right balance. While I want to give input, I also want to see Lauren’s artistic vision and do not want to be overly prescriptive. I don't think Lauren mentioned that the final piece will by 16 by 20 in mixed media. Color pencil and acrylic paint. Edited July 23, 2016 by Fossil Claw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Hmm... I struggle a little bit with the meanders of the river... direction from hill to the mountains? Why not along the plain from left to right? edit: examples: http://maps.unomaha.edu/maher/geo117/part2/fluvialimages/Yukonriverterrace.jpg http://www.niu.edu/landform/CommonImages/LostRiverAlluvialFans.jpg https://commons.wvc.edu/rdawes/g101ocl/Basics/alluvialFanWP.jpg https://www.niwa.co.nz/sites/niwa.co.nz/files/imported/__data/assets/image/0016/51802/braided3_large.jpg http://www.swisseduc.ch/glaciers/new_zealand/tasman_braided_rivers/icons/45_tasman_murchison.jpg https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/37/c1/7b/val-roseg.jpg http://images.mooseyscountrygarden.com/new-zealand/braided-river.jpg http://www.swisseduc.ch/glaciers/earth_icy_planet/icons-10/26-tasman-river-mount-cook.jpg and the last one, which maybe fits best to your scenery: http://www.seddepseq.co.uk/DEPOSITIONAL_ENV/Fluvial/EaES350_9_FluvDelt/Picture10.jpg http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BCM23B/braided-river-valley-at-el-chalten-in-los-glaciares-national-park-BCM23B.jpg Edited July 23, 2016 by Johannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pterosaur Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Thank you for the feedback everyone! I will refine the rhinos horn thanks to LordTrilobite's feedback, and Johannes - thank you very much for the landscape pictures. That help a good deal, and I am going to play with the distribution of the rivers. Another sketch coming soon!! "I am a part of all that I have met." - Lord Alfred Tennyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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