Examples of Commonly Faked Dino Eggs

[Still_human]

So what do u guys think about THIS one?!?!?! I completely believe it and would buy it in a second...would have ALREADY bought it, if I had that kind of money!

.....and then I would've crossed my fingers REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL hard that I didn't make a huge mistake!

 

(apparently the hole isn't a hatch-hole, part was broken in--doesn't say if it was an accident or not, but they have the missing piece as well)

 

 

 

 

[-Andy-]

It's real. It's also way overpriced.

[HamptonsDoc]

This is a real egg and a very nice one at that. I actually made a reasonable offer on it yesterday and was rejected. The seller is asking a HUGE price for it as he believes there is embryonic remains visible in the area with missing shell.  There really is no way of telling what is under the shell unless the egg is opened and fully explored which would destroy it, and the seller admits this in his listing. Personally, I believe that the area in question is calcite and crystallization similar to this egg from my collection pictured below.

 

[CBchiefski]

On 10/13/2016 at 2:55 PM, HamptonsDoc said:

 

Maiasaurus:

 

Another great resource is the book "Dinosaur Eggs and Babies" by Kenneth Carpenter.  A difficult read and very technical.  You will learn more than you ever wanted to know about Dinosaur eggs!

 

Wow, I am impressed by the level of expertise.   Yes, Carpenter's book is the best resource outside of reading the scientific papers and even then, his book can nicely summarize the important points. For the most part, the consensus is correct if it is an egg or not. The only major point I would like to add is the above picture is not likely Maiasaura, if it is then the shell is highly altered. The surface ornamentation for Maiasaura in simple terms looks similar to river channels and the nodes are not as rounded as those in the picture.  Again, it could be Miasaura but given the eggshell does not show any obvious diagenetic overprinting to match what would be necessary alterations, I doubt it is.

 

Here is an example of Maiasura eggshell.

[Troodon]

1 hour ago, CBchiefski said:

Here is an example of Maiasura eggshell.

Thank you, now I need to compare it to fragments I collected..  Do we have any information on the ornamentation of the other hadrosaurs in the TM?  Can we assume they are slmilar to Maiasura.  Any good papers out there ? 

[CBchiefski]

Happy to help, I really should take the time and go post by post in this thread to break down why certain eggs are real vs fake. Pores are a quick way to tell, there should never be pores along the side of a ridge or node and often fakes will have pores randomly. Pores tend to be in a valley or at the apex of a node in actual eggshell. Outside of Prismatoolithus (Troodon eggshell), smooth ornamentation is rare. One of the best overviews for the Two Med is "Hirsch and Quinn, 1990" in JVP. I tried to attach the paper but it is too large. Note that new finds have made the Hypsilophodont parts of the paper invalid but overall it is still solid. Hadrosaurs can vary widely in ornamentation but look for elongated nodes to actual ridges.  See attached for a few quick examples.

[Troodon]

8 minutes ago, CBchiefski said:

Happy to help, I really should take the time and go post by post in this thread to break down why certain eggs are real vs fake. Pores are a quick way to tell, there should never be pores along the side of a ridge or node and often fakes will have pores randomly. Pores tend to be in a valley or at the apex of a node in actual eggshell. Outside of Prismatoolithus (Troodon eggshell), smooth ornamentation is rare. One of the best overviews for the Two Med is "Hirsch and Quinn, 1990" in JVP. I tried to attach the paper but it is too large. Note that new finds have made the Hypsilophodont parts of the paper invalid but overall it is still solid. Hadrosaurs can vary widely in ornamentation but look for elongated nodes to actual ridges.  See attached for a few quick examples.

 

Appreciate all of this and will check out that paper already downloaded it.

[MarcNL]

On 1-6-2018 at 4:14 AM, -Andy- said:

These last few you posted are real too. The condition is pretty poor though.

Maybe a 'stupid question' from a newbee (so this is a really interesting topic) but isn't it very unlikely that after so many years the eggs are still not broken? Eggs in poor condition aren't more likely considered to be real? 

[Troodon]

5 hours ago, MarcNL said:

Maybe a 'stupid question' from a newbee (so this is a really interesting topic) but isn't it very unlikely that after so many years the eggs are still not broken? Eggs in poor condition aren't more likely considered to be real? 

Not a stupid question but a good one.  It all depends on their preservation.  Eggs can be found in pretty good shape with just minor fractures or they can be beat up.   Its typically to have fractures in the eggshell.  Condition of the egg should not be a determining factor whether it's real, you have to look at the eggshell.

[MarcNL]

49 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Not a stupid question but a good one.  It all depends on their preservation.  Eggs can be found in pretty good shape with just minor fractures or they can be beat up.   Its typically to have fractures in the eggshell.  Condition of the egg should not be a determining factor whether it's real, you have to look at the eggshell.

Thank you! 

[Indoraptor]

On 6/4/2018 at 10:50 AM, HamptonsDoc said:

This is a real egg and a very nice one at that. I actually made a reasonable offer on it yesterday and was rejected. The seller is asking a HUGE price for it as he believes there is embryonic remains visible in the area with missing shell.  There really is no way of telling what is under the shell unless the egg is opened and fully explored which would destroy it, and the seller admits this in his listing. Personally, I believe that the area in question is calcite and crystallization similar to this egg from my collection pictured below.

 

May I ask what the price was he wanted? Just curious what the price range is for such an egg.

[JohnJ]

8 minutes ago, Indoraptor said:

May I ask what the price was he wanted? Just curious what the price range is for such an egg.

Please keep the discussion of values via PM.  Thanks.   

[HamptonsDoc]

French Eggs

 

Dino Eggs from Asia are by far the most commonly known, found and collected eggs around.  Many people are not aware of the eggs from France.  Often these eggs can be found posted on the forum's Facebook page with lots of people commenting on poor condition when in reality they can be quite beautiful.  French eggs have not been as well preserved as their Asian counterparts thus giving them a very different look than what people are used to.  These eggs are much rarer and less desirable to beginner egg collectors.  Another thing I like about French eggs is that they can be legally exported from France.  I also have not yet seen a fake French egg for sale.  Here are a few examples from my collection:

 

Cairanoolithus dughii

 

Probably the most commonly seen of the French eggs.  These eggs are often unstable so it is typical to find them in plaster jackets.  The degree of spacing between the shell is very common for these.  Picture this egg as a giant jig saw puzzle- you'll see most of the spacing between shell is equal and the pieces would fit nicely back together if they weren't attached to the matrix.  This is a good exercise when looking at all eggs to help with authenticity.  Also note ridges and pores on the shell.  These are now thought to be attributed to Ankylosaurs but I don't this is confirmed. 

 

 

 

Megaloolithus sp. (Formerly known as eggs from Hypselosaurus Priscus)

 

This egg was collected in the 1950's near Aix-en-Provence.  These eggs are one of my favorites and were one of the first dino eggs discovered in Europe.  For many decades they were attributed to the titanosaur Hypselosaurus priscus but this has more recently fallen out of favor.  The red color with the white lines on the edges of the shell is very commonly seen on these.

 

 

 

Megaloolithus sirugei

 

A very rare egg from the south of France, likely from Rouseet.  I found this egg for sale several years ago and had it identified by a well known French paleontologist.  The person I purchased this from was given this egg in the 1970's which makes sense as now no eggs can be taken from this region.  This is the only egg of this type I have seen.

 

 

[Troodon]

Nice eggs.  

15 minutes ago, HamptonsDoc said:

 

Dino Eggs from Asia are by far the most commonly known, found and collected eggs around.  Many people are not aware of the eggs from France

Very nice eggs in your collection.  Good post by showing the different species.

I'm actually surprised we have not seen fake ones.  You would think they would be easy to do since shell material is found and can be easily configured into the typical French egg like your first photo.

[-Andy-]

Nice write-up Jason. I am still not totally sold on the first egg being a Cairanoolithus, but I will know better once mine arrives.

 

As for Megaloolithus sp, here's mine that was once sold as a Hypselosaurus priscus too. It's most likely from Aix-en Province. I've read about Cairanoolithus being a possible Ankylosaur egg, but not Megaloolithus. Is there new research done on this?

 

[HamptonsDoc]

22 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

Nice write-up Jason. I am still not totally sold on the first egg being a Cairanoolithus, but I will know better once mine arrives.

 

As for Megaloolithus sp, here's mine that was once sold as a Hypselosaurus priscus too. It's most likely from Aix-en Province. I've read about Cairanoolithus being a possible Ankylosaur egg, but not Megaloolithus. Is there new research done on this?

The first egg came with documentation from French paleontologist Francois Escuillie who labeled it.  He is also the person that identified my Megaloolithus sirugei.

 

You are correct about Ankylosaurs....  Will correct it now! 

[aeon.rocks]

On 7/19/2018 at 1:15 AM, JohnJ said:

Please keep the discussion of values via PM.

 

Why? By stating your personal opinion about values you don't hurt sellers opinion or his sales any more as by telling people he sells fakes. What difference does it make if you can write: "it's overpriced, don't buy", but you can't write: "seller is asking 1000$, I wouldn't pay more as 500$"? That still doesn't change the fact that for someone it might be worth 900$ or 1500$... There is no actual fixed value in fossils, except for scientific value...

 

Quote

Another thing I like about French eggs is that they can be legally exported from France. ...  I also have not yet seen a fake French egg for sale. 

 

That's because the government and customs are not doing their job,  laws they write on paper are not enforced, but you should be aware that French or Spanish eggs are just as protected and illegal to collect, dig, export as Asian eggs. As far as fakes go, unless you found Cairanoolithus dughii egg yourself or have photo documentation of the find and extraction process, I am not convinced: my quick guess is it could be a composite. It's very easy to make an egg as you show from shell pieces, just takes a bit of time and real shell...

[HamptonsDoc]

16 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

What difference does it make if you can write: "it's overpriced, don't buy"

It probably stems from the forum's policy of not providing appraisals.  I could see some sellers getting upset if their fossils are consistently labeled as overpriced on the forum and who knows of any potential legal ramifications that could open up.

 

16 minutes ago, aeon.rocks said:

I am not convinced: my quick guess is it could be a composite

So this is actually one of the few eggs that I have with full documentation about when and where it was found with written permission from the land owner and identified by the respected French paleontologist Fracois Escuillie.  Personally I doubt that my example is a composite but agree that these could easily be forged.

[-Andy-]

18 minutes ago, HamptonsDoc said:

The first egg came with documentation from French paleontologist Francois Escuillie who labeled it.  He is also the person that identified my Megaloolithus sirugei.

 

You are correct about Ankylosaurs....  Will correct it now! 

 

Interesting. @Pixpaleosky once told me that my pebbly-texture eggshells were not Cairanoolithus, but Megaloolithus. He stated that Cairanoolithus eggshells are smooth. He seems experienced with eggs of this region as well, so let's hear his thoughts too.

 

Which part of France is your C. dughii from?

[HamptonsDoc]

6 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

 

Interesting. @Pixpaleosky once told me that my pebbly-texture eggshells were not Cairanoolithus, but Megaloolithus. He stated that Cairanoolithus eggshells are smooth. He seems experienced with eggs of this region as well, so let's hear his thoughts too.

 

Which part of France is your C. dughii from?

My Cairanoolithus dughii is from Montagnac near Meze in Herault, France.  The shell does feel very smooth compared to the megaloolithus eggs.

 

I actually have the exact address of the property but its hand written in cursive and in French!!

[aeon.rocks]

12 minutes ago, HamptonsDoc said:

 

 

HamptonsDoc, could be real, you get to see in hand, but looking at that puzzle these were my thoughts exactly about the papers: "but agree that these could easily be forged."

 

[JohnJ]

3 hours ago, aeon.rocks said:

Why? By stating your personal opinion about values you don't hurt sellers opinion or his sales any more as by telling people he sells fakes. What difference does it make if you can write: "it's overpriced, don't buy", but you can't write: "seller is asking 1000$, I wouldn't pay more as 500$"? That still doesn't change the fact that for someone it might be worth 900$ or 1500$... There is no actual fixed value in fossils, except for scientific value...

 

Indeed, Jason is correct.  The discussion of values is akin to appraisals and prohibited by Forum policy.  

[Troodon]

4 hours ago, HamptonsDoc said:

The first egg came with documentation from French paleontologist Francois Escuillie who labeled it.  

Ditto with one of my French eggs, same type.  Have you had the opportunity to meet him at Tucson? Nice guy knows his stuff , his English eh.  He was there 3 years ago other problems have prevented him from coming the past couple of years.

[HamptonsDoc]

10 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Ditto with one of my French eggs, same type.  Have you had the opportunity to meet him at Tucson? Nice guy knows his stuff , his English eh.  He was there 3 years ago other problems have prevented him from coming the past couple of years.

I have not yet had the pleasure to meet him but I will be in Tucson this year so hopefully he'll be able to make the trip!

[Pixpaleosky]

hi,

 

at the first glance the 1st egg looked fake to me, but because it comes from Meze (South west) and that I only know the ones from South East, maybe the rock and conservation are different.

 

The second one is good but badly prepared, and the 3rd is good.

 

To reply on extraction and export: extraction is allowed as long as one has the landlord agreement. So it means you cant do it in Aix reserve and state grounds.

There is no law against selling fossils and exporting them, contrary to Spain.

 

And finally for species, I recently talked with the paleontologist in charge of the dinosaur eggs reserve of Aix and giving a name just by seeing the shell top is impossible. It must be under a microscope in cross section.

 

I attach a graph with the main categories of cross sections (in French sorry)