izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 G'day, I was recently splitting some leftovers from the Belmont insect beds (Permian) from NSW, Australia and I found what appears to be an insect wing. Its preserved differently than the Glossopteris in the formation with a shiny surface (not visible in photos). But I thought it could also be half of a glossopteris leaf. So, any ideas? (I am referring to the dark shape just above the ruler) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Please note: There are only supposed to be insect remains in 1 very thin layer at this site but I'm not sure if this is the layer. Maybe @Paleoworld-101 can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 My guess is that it's part of the Glossopteris leaf that has split off from the main portion, sort of like Africa and South America 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Wrangellian said: My guess is that it's part of the Glossopteris leaf that has split off from the main portion, sort of like Africa and South America oh woops I completely read that wrong haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWGeoFan Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Are you able to see what patterns on it look like? Are they all webbed like veins or do they all follow similar paths to one origin? "I am going to dig up dinosaurs whether they are liquid or solid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, NWGeoFan said: Are you able to see what patterns on it look like? Are they all webbed like veins or do they all follow similar paths to one origin? They follow this general pattern. Branching off one another, all starting from one original vein. This is a very terrible drawing, if it helps I can outline them from the original pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Brightened and enlarged. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Thanks Tim. In this image you can see the veins better: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I believe such an open vein pattern is inconsistent with the way the wings are constructed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Leaning towards leaf fragment. The vein structure appears to match the missing portion of the main leaf next to it, and i can't picture an insect wing with such a long and thin flimsy attachment-base like that. 1 "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Paleoworld-101 said: Leaning towards leaf fragment. The vein structure appears to match the missing portion of the main leaf next to it, and i can't picture an insect wing with such a long and thin flimsy attachment-base like that. Thanks you! The base of it does continue back into the rock, I can try to air scribe it out a bit more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Foozil said: Thanks you! The base of it does continue back into the rock, I can try to air scribe it out a bit more? You can give it a go but be careful as i found the edges of the leaves flake off quite easily, or at least mine did 1 "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Paleoworld-101 said: You can give it a go but be careful as i found the edges of the leaves flake off quite easily, or at least mine did I'll paraloid it so it doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 I tried a bit, but I don't think I want to risk it, I'm certainly not skilled enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I'm going to buck the trend here and say this might actually be an insect wing. The cross-veination is not consistent with it being Glossopteris, and the overall shape is somewhat obscured by matrix. Might be worth a closer look. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, jdp said: I'm going to buck the trend here and say this might actually be an insect wing. The cross-veination is not consistent with it being Glossopteris, and the overall shape is somewhat obscured by matrix. Might be worth a closer look. Thank you. I know someone who has done lots of work on the site so I'll ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Wrangellian said: My guess is that it's part of the Glossopteris leaf that has split off from the main portion, sort of like Africa and South America Oh snap, paleontological history allusion! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I was envisioning something similar to this flying seed pod. Perhaps of a different variety if course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 This may be one of those specimens that has to be seen "in hand" as it is too shy and hides from the camera. My inclination is to say it is plant not insect, but I am not completely sure. If you have a local expert to consult that would be the best route. Please let us know what they say. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 6 hours ago, WhodamanHD said: Oh snap, paleontological history allusion! Sometimes I surprise myself. I can't claim to actually be that brilliant when it only happens every now and then. To me it's clearly a piece of the leaf split off - the venation looks the same and the juxtaposition with the main leaf stem must be no coincidence. Also it has bits of carbon (coal) although the main leaf doesn't have so much but maybe it was exposed/weathered longer? Do insect wings ever turn to coal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Wrangellian said: Sometimes I surprise myself. I can't claim to actually be that brilliant when it only happens every now and then. Sure you can! Just type “I claim to be brilliant”, that’s at least how I claim to be brilliant, when it never happens to me! btw this thread is interesting, I’m interested especially to see what it turns out to be “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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