New Members eolson76 Posted February 6, 2018 New Members Share Posted February 6, 2018 My parents found this on their farm in southern Minnesota (Watonwan County), roughly 50 years ago. My parents--now in their 80s--are thinking about selling the farm, and passed the fossil on to me. I would be thrilled if anyone could help me figure out what it might actually be. I have tried to take clear pictures of each side. Any questions, feel free to let me know. Thanks in advance for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 It's hard for me to be certain, as this is a fragment of an originally larger fossil. However there are Cretaceous ammonites known from Minnesota, and this might be a piece of a large ammonite. Hard to tell for sure, unfortunately. Don 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The ribs look uneven (not aligned with the ones on the other side)in the pictures, is this so? This makes me think it’s an iron concretion. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members eolson76 Posted February 6, 2018 Author New Members Share Posted February 6, 2018 Thanks for the ideas! I'm pretty sure the ribs are aligned. That last picture is deceiving, due to the angle, and that broken-out section. I'll take another good look at this, when I get home. Don, now that you say that, and I look at some online pics of large specimens, I sure wonder! (Ironically, I actually also have a split ammonite at home, which I had bought a few years back. But I never knew they could get as large as this one from my parent's farm must have been, if that's what it is!) Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 It might be a fragment of the outer whorl of an ammonite. 2 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I'd also go for a somewhat crushed portion of the living chamber of a large ammonite. 1 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 one more for ammonite section 1 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimTexan Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 It is definitely an ammonite section. I have found hundreds of ammonite fragments of many different species. The first pic has what appear to be the remnants of septa on the end and the groove on the right where this fragment once wrapped around an earlier section of the ammonite in an involute manner. Speaking of how large ammonites get, they get huge. I know there have been several of a particular species here in North Texas that have found which were 48 inches in diameter. I know some got even bigger that that. There is one I know from Germany that was 8.5 feet in diameter!! The biggest one I have personally found is 18 inches across. I’ve found fragments of ones that would have been much larger. Here are a couple pics of a fragment of a large ammonite. Larger being relative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I was leery going with ammonite in Minnesota, but Watonwan County does have some cretaceous conglomerate present, hence the broken piece. Otherwise, more frequently one encounters Cambrian geology with also areas of Sioux Quartzite and granitoid gneiss in that county. Still could not find evidence of ammonites from Watonwan Co., but with the Cretaceous material present, it's likely. Maybe keep cephalopod as a possibility too., though bedrock for such specimens occurs further east. But with glaciation, it opens the door to a cephalopod being transported there. Mike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members eolson76 Posted February 7, 2018 Author New Members Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) Great info, everyone! Thanks so much for the thoughts! Kim, love the pics and details! That second pic is particularly interesting. As is the info that ammonites have truly been found as large as 8.5'! Mike, I was wondering that myself, as I'm hitting a dearth of info or pics on Minnesota ammonites. (Several sites note that they have been found; just not a lot of info to go along with it.) I was curious if perhaps it had been moved by glaciation. (The Watonwan River also cuts through the property. However the find was on high ground, a decent distance away from the river.) This talk of it being an ammonite--or other cephalopod--would fit very well, with another possible marine creature found in the same area... Something that sure appears (to our uneducated eyes, anyhow) to be a large trilobite. Some likely petrified wood, some sort of large fossilized teeth(?), and Native American artifacts make up some of the other finds off the property, over the years. I may have to post some more pics! Edited February 7, 2018 by eolson76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 @eolson76, If found on high ground, Cretaceous or Glacial deposit fits. If in the river bottom, Cambrian or earlier more likely. Definitely NOT trilobite. Unlikely mammoth/mastodon teeth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members eolson76 Posted February 7, 2018 Author New Members Share Posted February 7, 2018 24 minutes ago, minnbuckeye said: @eolson76, If found on high ground, Cretaceous or Glacial deposit fits. If in the river bottom, Cambrian or earlier more likely. Definitely NOT trilobite. Unlikely mammoth/mastodon teeth. Interesting. Thanks. I'll get a pic up tomorrow, of that other item that was found in the same area. It's much more entire than this piece, and should probably (hopefully) be easy to ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, eolson76 said: Great info, everyone! Thanks so much for the thoughts! Kim, love the pics and details! That second pic is particularly interesting. As is the info that ammonites have truly been found as large as 8.5'! Mike, I was wondering that myself, as I'm hitting a dearth of info or pics on Minnesota ammonites. (Several sites note that they have been found; just not a lot of info to go along with it.) I was curious if perhaps it had been moved by glaciation. (The Watonwan River also cuts through the property. However the find was on high ground, a decent distance away from the river.) This talk of it being an ammonite--or other cephalopod--would fit very well, with another possible marine creature found in the same area... Something that sure appears (to our uneducated eyes, anyhow) to be a large trilobite. Some likely petrified wood, some sort of large fossilized teeth(?), and Native American artifacts make up some of the other finds off the property, over the years. I may have to post some more pics! Can we see a pic of the prospective trilobite? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Could also be a large cephalopod piece , maybe some thing like Cameroceras or Dawsonoceras. 1 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranzBernhard Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Interesting piece! It sure has the outlines of a fragment of a large ammonite. But it also has some characteristics of a wheatering iron concretion. Whats the color of the piece (brown?) and the color of the powder/streak? Is the surface somewhat flaky in some areas? Could it be an ammonite fragment replaced by iron minerals? Franz Bernhard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Similar ammonites, particularly Dunveganoceras, are known from Minnesota (see this reference). Don 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members eolson76 Posted February 8, 2018 Author New Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 hours ago, FossilDAWG said: Similar ammonites, particularly Dunveganoceras, are known from Minnesota (see this reference). Don, I can really see some potential resemblance to the Dunveganoceras! And what a link! That gives me some great reading material to keep busy with, for awhile! Awesome! 5 hours ago, FranzBernhard said: Whats the color of the piece (brown?) and the color of the powder/streak? Is the surface somewhat flaky in some areas? Could it be an ammonite fragment replaced by iron minerals? I wouldn't be surprised if the mineralogical makeup is largely iron. It is a very rich reddish brown color. I'll try to do a streak test, tonight. 7 hours ago, Peat Burns said: Can we see a pic of the prospective trilobite? I'll get some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I will stake my reputation and my honor as a British gentleman on that being, unquestionably, an ammonite fragment. However, I have to say; those photos are small, man. Post bigger photos. I've developed instantaneous eye-strain and possibly permanent cross-eyedness from goggling at those. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.N.FossilmanLithuania Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Yes it is huge ammonite fragment judging by the shape, I think you should follow Dunveganoceras identification that suggested FossilDAWG. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members eolson76 Posted February 8, 2018 Author New Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 15 hours ago, Aurelius said: I've developed instantaneous eye-strain and possibly permanent cross-eyedness from goggling at those. Sorry. I hadn't realized how much they had downsized when sending them from my phone. Hope you make a full recovery! And thanks for the ammonite confirmation! On 2/7/2018 at 10:11 AM, Peat Burns said: Can we see a pic of the prospective trilobite? Sadly, yes, I was 100% dead-wrong about the one piece possibly being a trilobite. Enclosed under nailed-on glass, I had never gotten a great look at it... Upon prying off the top so I could photograph it, I quickly realized the mistake. (Absolutely no doubt, upon flipping it over.) I'm still a little unsure about some of the other bits and pieces, but, thank goodness, as least I'm pretty confident about the arrowheads and scraper. 12 hours ago, D.N.FossilmanLithuania said: I think you should follow Dunveganoceras identification that suggested FossilDAWG. Agreed! That's how I'm going to label it. Great to have that mystery solved. Thanks, all!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, eolson76 said: Sadly, yes, I was 100% dead-wrong about the one piece possibly being a trilobite. Enclosed under nailed-on glass, I had never gotten a great look at it... Upon prying off the top so I could photograph it, I quickly realized the mistake. (Absolutely no doubt, upon flipping it over.) Not knowing exactly where it came from, I'd say it's reminiscent of an inoceramid clam. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members eolson76 Posted February 8, 2018 Author New Members Share Posted February 8, 2018 30 minutes ago, Peat Burns said: Not knowing exactly where it came from, I'd say it's reminiscent of an inoceramid clam. Thanks! (Southern Minnesota. St. James area. From what I understand, that piece was also found in the same general location on the farm, as the ammonite fragment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peat Burns Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 25 minutes ago, eolson76 said: Thanks! (Southern Minnesota. St. James area. From what I understand, that piece was also found in the same general location on the farm, as the ammonite fragment.) Well, that would support the possibility that it's an inoceramid - Cretaceous . Let's see what others think... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I think, you're right. 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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