jdp Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I'm just saying they aren't. Both burrow types essentially only occur in paleosol facies in the Council Grove and Chase groups and have really characteristic structure. You're not going to find them in marine rocks. If you're not looking specifically for them, you won't find them by accident. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, jdp said: I'm just saying they aren't. Both burrow types essentially only occur in paleosol facies in the Council Grove and Chase groups and have really characteristic structure. You're not going to find them in marine rocks. If you're not looking specifically for them, you won't find them by accident. OK. I don't disagree with you. What whould be your closest ID referring to the specimens in question? " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 No idea. I'm not an ichnologist. I have simply done a lot of work on both lungfishes and Brachydectes in the rock units in question and can state with 100% confidence that neither animal made these structures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, jdp said: No idea. I'm not an ichnologist. I have simply done a lot of work on both lungfishes and Brachydectes in the rock units in question and can state with 100% confidence that neither animal made these structures. Then, I'll go back to Tarquin's response to the topic. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 38 minutes ago, jdp said: You're not going to find them in marine rocks. What I have is most certainly marine as evidenced by the accumulations of shell pieces. However, these are molds of something that may or may not have been created in marine environment. If I were to find one in-situ I could answer this question. I'm to small and weigh too little to get a shovel into these rocky soils. I found this photo of modern fish nests presumed to be made by bluegill. Other very small fish can build fairly large nests. (They're from forums.pondboss) "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, abyssunder said: Then, I'll go back to Tarquin's response to the topic. Enigmatichnus... "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, Innocentx said: Enigmatichnus... Not a bad idea (ID)! Unfortunately, the name Enigmatichnus was taken for another ichnogenus / ichnospecies, but Innocentichnus is free. Edited November 5, 2018 by abyssunder 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 33 minutes ago, Innocentx said: What I have is most certainly marine as evidenced by the accumulations of shell pieces. These two samples may have similar content. C. C. conicus (GIT 156-1910) showing lateral adjustment traces from Küttejõu, northern Estonia, Kiviõli Formation (Sandbian). Scale bar in mm. excerpt from Vinn et al., 2015. 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, abyssunder said: These two samples may have similar content. Yes. The broken areas seem to show same type of accumulations. It's just that mine seem larger than what's been suggested. "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 37 minutes ago, Innocentx said: Yes. The broken areas seem to show same type of accumulations. It's just that mine seem larger than what's been suggested. The dimensions are variable, concluding after all the variants ever described in the specific literature from different geological times and locations, and some you've encountered are greater in width that all. What is clear, is that all of your specimens have a dominant conical structure with shell debris and / or bivalve trace accumulation, leaning to the proposed ichnotaxa mentioned from the beginning of the thread. Great finds, Patty! Good discussion! 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Innocentx said: What I have is most certainly marine as evidenced by the accumulations of shell pieces. However, these are molds of something that may or may not have been created in marine environment. If I were to find one in-situ I could answer this question. I'm to small and weigh too little to get a shovel into these rocky soils. I found this photo of modern fish nests presumed to be made by bluegill. Other very small fish can build fairly large nests. (They're from forums.pondboss) Possible, but not the only option. Another possibility is that these could be bacterial mats that have captured shell material. I've seen that a few times in the region, so it's possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentx Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 After having looked at, read about all the suggested possible IDs; for a number of reasons I continue to feel just a bit uneasy putting these into those categories. Maybe I'll contact KU Ichnology department and find out if they might want to see them or have more ideas. Thanks to everyone who has helped me or attempted to: @abyssunder @jdp @TqB @KimTexan @JohnBrewer Patty 2 "Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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