Ryker Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Found this little rock a couple of weeks ago, haven't had time to clean it up yet and not sure I really want to. I've seen lots of crinoids, but these seem to have been working overtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehunt Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 It almost looks like they have rusty beer cans mixed in. Maybe that's how they got so big! Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 i like that kind of stuff. anything that's on a "plate" with multiple fossils looking like maybe it's a snapshot of the sea floor from so many million years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Stogiecrinus "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron E. Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 This is the tragedy of modern-day fossil collecting: prior to the steroid era, crinoids were smaller in size, but were HONEST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Very cool plate of Crinodis. It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I have a theory... we too find some very large crinoid stems/stalks around these parts, and many more smaller types. But you can look all day long and find only the stems, 1000s of them, but few, if any of the cups. So my theory is (please, tongue-in-cheek for you who might take me too seriously) that there are species of crinoids that have only stems/stalks!! I mean, we all know there are species without stalks/stems, so I propose, based on the preponderance of the evidence, that there are also these Headless Crinoids. We can call them Ichabodis Cranidus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I have a theory... we too find some very large crinoid stems/stalks around these parts, and many more smaller types. But you can look all day long and find only the stems, 1000s of them, but few, if any of the cups. So my theory is (please, tongue-in-cheek for you who might take me too seriously) that there are species of crinoids that have only stems/stalks!! I mean, we all know there are species without stalks/stems, so I propose, based on the preponderance of the evidence, that there are also these Headless Crinoids. We can call them Ichabodis Cranidus. Good one! lol:D Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig rocks Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa dino Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Like you said Fig Rock very cool what is more import is that dollar bill how old is that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I have seen similar here in Mo., large stems, no heads. I have heard it speculated that they were being fed on by sharks, leaving the stems behind. Probably taste like chicken (of the sea). Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I have seen similar here in Mo., large stems, no heads. I have heard it speculated that they were being fed on by sharks, leaving the stems behind. Probably taste like chicken (of the sea). Brent Ashcraft This is highly likely. I've seen places that have bazillions of columnals with very few cups (mostly an ocasional cup plate or two, and rarely a whole cup). The presence of shark teeth seem to confirm the predation hypothesis, but I have not yet read anything specifically proving it, or even theorizing it from a scientific standpoint. Are there any teeth among these columnals at the site this thread started about? Also, do any of you know of documented cases in scientific lit. of predation being established with the help of this coincidence (massive quantities of columnals and presence of shark teeth)? Thanks. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryker Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I haven't seen any shark teeth in this area, but that is an intersting hypothesis. Of the thousands of stems I have seen in this area, I have only found 3 cups. This would seem to support the theory that something was eating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryker Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I haven't seen any shark teeth in this area, but that is an intersting hypothesis. Of the thousands of stems I have seen in this area, I have only found 3 cups. This would seem to support the theory that something was eating them. Oh, also like the Ichabodis Cranidus, that's hillarious. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'd be looking for "crusher" shark's teeth. Another possibility is that it was a high-energy depositional environment, and the calyxes dis-articulated. Any sign of loose plates? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) I haven't seen any shark teeth in this area, but that is an intersting hypothesis. Of the thousands of stems I have seen in this area, I have only found 3 cups. This would seem to support the theory that something was eating them. OK, cool. Thanks. So, was that found somewhere in MO? I'd be looking for "crusher" shark's teeth. Another possibility is that it was a high-energy depositional environment, and the calyxes dis-articulated. Any sign of loose plates? Actually, we've found at least a couple different kinds of shark teeth at one of the places I'm thinking of. Mainly, we find Petalodus teeth. A couple of us have found Peripristis teeth. I have found 'shell-crusher' teeth elsewhere, but not in this area yet. I think the Petalodonts (at least the ones we see these teeth from) seem more like 'nippers' (where they'd swim along, a few feet to a couple meters from the floor of the reef and 'n i p' off the tops of the crinoids, etc.) than 'crushers' (where they'd kinda scoop up a mouthful of stuff, spit out the sand, crush the shells and swallow the goodies). Though that is not a scientifically-based opinion at all, other than my own hypothesising about what may have been going on in this Pennsylvanian sea. Of course, a high-energy environment is plausible as well (as you suggest....yes, there are loose plates, as well as an ocasional cup), but it's not as sexy as sharks eating the little guys. :lolu: p.s. Hahaha....that's funny.....I can say nippers, but not ###### (n i p). Edited October 29, 2009 by Mr. Edonihce . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Yeah, Petalodus is kind of what I had in mind...echinoderms seem like they'd be pretty crunchy. The big prob with the "high-energy" thing is that I imagine crinoids to be a denizen of somewhat calmer waters. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The calyx of the critter is where most of the soft tissue resides; as bacteria eat away the tissue and ligaments, the plates tend to dissarticulate. I am, some what inebriated, and can't think of the term... sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 "I am, some what inebriated, and can't think of the term... sorry." drunk, loaded, sloshed, blasted, blitzed, blotto, bombed, crocked, juiced, intoxicated, plastered, sauced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Yeah, Petalodus is kind of what I had in mind...echinoderms seem like they'd be pretty crunchy. The big prob with the "high-energy" thing is that I imagine crinoids to be a denizen of somewhat calmer waters. According to this document (CHONDRICHTHYANS FROM THE PENNSYLVANIAN (DESMOINESIAN) NACO FORMATION OF CENTRAL ARIZONA), "The large occlusal surface and shearing ridges on the lingual side of the tooth suggest adaptations for biting and slicing soft tissue. Hansen and Mapes (1990) described a cephalopod that appears to have been bitten by a petalodont, however, while the morphology of the bite marks seems to fit the dentition of Petalodus, other predators cannot be ruled out. Certainly, Petalodus may have preyed upon cephalopods, but they may not have made up a large portion of its diet." Now, of coruse, this is just a pub about one particular species of Petalodontid, but it seems to suggest to me that shell-crushing might not be exactly what the Petalodonts were usually busy doing. I don't know though....it seems a bit difficult to locate documentation about them. Example (from here)... "Few petalodont teeth have been found associated with other fish parts or as preserved cartilaginous imprints in black shale. Thus, little is known about the morphology of the petalodont fishes." If anyone has a great reference for Pennsylvanian sharks, please post up. The calyx of the critter is where most of the soft tissue resides; as bacteria eat away the tissue and ligaments, the plates tend to dissarticulate. I am, some what inebriated, and can't think of the term... sorry. Ha! :-) Yet, you can spell inebriated. What a hoot!! Ya, you're right though, and that makes sense too. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron E. Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The calyx of the critter is where most of the soft tissue resides; as bacteria eat away the tissue and ligaments, the plates tend to dissarticulate. I am, some what inebriated, and can't think of the term... sorry. It's always noon somewhere, eh, DDG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Petalodont teeth don't look to me to be particularly specialized, and they for sure don't look like steak knives. I suspect the ate whatever they could handle. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Petalodont teeth don't look to me to be particularly specialized... Interesting. I'm more used to hearing folks talk about how something is specialized, and then checking out the evidence in favor of their opinion. I'm not sure how to approach the topic of something not being specialized. Can you elaborate? ...and they for sure don't look like steak knives. Indeed. I have only seen light serration on some of the Petalodontid teeth I've found; nothing like the cutlery from Kansas Cretaceous sharks that I've seen, etc. ...I suspect the ate whatever they could handle. Good point. Perhaps this was their specialization. Still, they seem ideal for clipping off the cups of crinoids to me. ....not too sharp, not too dull...just about right as I see it (though I must admit that I've never tried to bite the cup off of a live crinoid). Does anything prey on extant crinoids (other than submarines? . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Does anything prey on extant crinoids (other than submarines? There is a fairly famous clip floating around of a crinoid "running" for its life from brittle stars, a very eerie clip indeed. Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 There is a fairly famous clip floating around of a crinoid "running" for its life from brittle stars, a very eerie clip indeed. Brent Ashcraft That'd be neat to see for sure. I search a little for it, but came up short. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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