How rare are dinosaur fossils really? (dinosaurs/volume)

[jpc]

2 hours ago, Flx said:

There is data available about the area and the thickness of the Morisson formation (and thus the volume). This means if we can get a "dinosaur density" from the pipeline projects we can also estimate the total number of dinosaur skeletons still burried in the ground. 

 

Has someone ever seen a number for the surface area of Morrison fm.  that is exposed? If not I can try to get an estimate from geological maps.

I think most fossils are not very accessible.

 

 

Maps of surface Morrison outcrops in the USA west are commonly featured in publications about the Fm.  I don't think I have ever seen it described in acres or hectares, but it is a lot.  Correction:  One million square km from the book mentioned in the next sentence, but he does not say if that includes subsurface.   This map is from John Foster's Jurassic West (2nd ed) and shows some of the more famous bone sites.   Indeed it would be easier to calculate acreage from using each state's geology map (there does exist one for each state).  A lot of work.

  

[jpc]

9 hours ago, Flx said:

@jpc This is super exciting! I was not aware that there are actual projects for which large amounts of matrix is excavated and a paleo person is watching the process.

If there is data available about how many miles of pipelines are built (and watched by a paleo person) and how many fossils have been found during that process, that could probably give a pretty good estimate about the rarity of fossils in that formation.

 

If you have contacts that you could ask for specific numbers or alternatively forward a contact to me that would be great!

so the way this works is that the pipeline company suggests a path for their pipeline.  Then a mitigation paleontologist looks at it and the geological units it goes through.  Each unit is labeled with a score telling folks how likely it is to have fossils.  The Morrison is labeled Very Likely.  Often a pipeline company wll change the path to avoid Very Likely areas if possible.  PM me and I will try to hook you up with some mitigation paleontologists.    

[doushantuo]

Good post,crusty.

I studied law,one time in my life,and had to quit.

(my grades were not unreasonable,but i was in hub of supertalent,and rapidly felt outclassed in a big way.) 

But you know how thes things work: echoes of it keep reverberating,particularly when legal issues make the news

Edited March 24, 2022 by doushantuo

[doushantuo]

Some of you may fin the following(depending on several factors,of course):

amusing

instructive,educational

technically useful

edit: RECOMMENDED

American Museum Novitates,N 3956,june 2020

Reconstructing the specimens and history of Howe Quarry (Upper Jurassic Morrison Formation; Wyoming

 EMANUEL TSCHOPP, CARL MEHLING, AND MARK A. NORELL

 

 

tschoppmehlingnorellN3956.pdf

Edited March 24, 2022 by doushantuo

[Crusty_Crab]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:06 AM, Crusty_Crab said:

The permittee may choose to employ a monitor as part of their NEPA compliance, but there is nothing inherent in the NEPA regulations that requires them to do so. This apparently did not sit well with some lawmakers regarding BLM land, which encompasses a wide swath of property across the US. The Paleontological Resources Preservation Act (PRPA) aimed to address some of those shortcomings on BLM land ONLY. https://www.blm.gov/paleontology NEPA and the PRPA does NOT apply to private property with no federal involvement, where many significant finds have been found in the past. 

https://gizmodo.com/dinosaur-tracks-damaged-after-construction-crew-drove-o-1848775984

 

This is an example of what I said. In this article, some BLM contractors had driven over some dinosaur tracks, potentially causing damage. No paleontological monitors were present. As stated, NEPA, which applies to federal agencies, does not require any mitigations such as paleontological monitors. We trust the federal agencies to go beyond what is required in NEPA, but its clear that we can't depend on it. 

 

What was not clarified in the article is that the Paleontological Resources Preservation Act was enacted in 2009. It is now 2022 and the regulations have still not been promulgated. We did get a fact sheet in 2016 though. https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/programs_paleontology_quicklinks_PRPA fact sheet.pdf

 

 

 

[erose]

Here in Central Texas dino bones are exceedingly rare. There are a few isolated locations that have produced good material but otherwise you have to go down to Big Bend to find dino bones in quantity and that is all either National Park or private property.  BUT, there are literally hundreds of dino foot print sites scattered throughout the Hill Country of Central Texas.  The enviironment along that shallow sea was terrible for terrestrial  vertebrate preservation, but rather good for ichno preservation.  Every time we have a decent flooding event I get all kinds of emails about new trackways being exposed.