Indonesian Meg

[Meganeura]

Hey guys! So I was thinking of possibly buying an Indo Meg - seller says it’s 5.6”, there’s some damage to one of the sides, which makes me think it’s legit, but the root also looks a little strange, so I wanted to ask here what you guys think!

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

The root does look funny. I'm not seeing too much porous material on the root, which leads me to believe it may just be carved sandstone from where the tooth was found.

Would you be able to ask the seller for close-ups of the root and UV photos?

 

When it comes to Indonesian meg teeth, the roots aren't usually preserved, and are often faked. If the seller offers a free returns policy, then I don't see any harm in purchasing the fossil, and experimenting on it a bit. List of tests:

1. Hit the tooth with UV light - if there are areas of the root that look inconsistent with each other, then that could be a sign of forgery
2. Poke the root with a hot needle to detect forgery (probably don't touch the enamel )
3. If you suspect it has been coated with paint, acetone would be able to dissolve the paint WITHOUT damaging the rock or fossil

 

It is very likely that the tooth itself (enamel) is real, and the root is a Frankenshark.

[Meganeura]

8 minutes ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

The root does look funny. I'm not seeing too much porous material on the root, which leads me to believe it may just be carved sandstone from where the tooth was found.

Would you be able to ask the seller for close-ups of the root and UV photos?

 

When it comes to Indonesian meg teeth, the roots aren't usually preserved, and are often faked. If the seller offers a free returns policy, then I don't see any harm in purchasing the fossil, and experimenting on it a bit. List of tests:

1. Hit the tooth with UV light - if there are areas of the root that look inconsistent with each other, then that could be a sign of forgery
2. Poke the root with a hot needle to detect forgery (probably don't touch the enamel )
3. If you suspect it has been coated with paint, acetone would be able to dissolve the paint WITHOUT damaging the rock or fossil

 

It is very likely that the tooth itself (enamel) is real, and the root is a Frankenshark.

I was definitely thinking that about the root - especially given what you can see on the broken edge where the inside of the tooth is, it’s a different shade entirely. 
 

also thank you for the reminder to ask about UV tests and return policy!

[Meganeura]

Update: 

Seller doesn’t have a black light but did take this picture. Root looks even more odd now, I think? Looks like the right side is possibly real root but the left was carved. Or whole thing could be. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Meganeura

[Troodon]

I think if the root were faked they would not make it look like this.  I also dont see anything different between either side of the root.  If you're buying this from someone in Indonesia my gut says its a one way sale. 

Buying these teeth is always risky unless its from a highly regarded domestic dealer who has experience with these teeth and solid connections to get better grade teeth, but you are paying for it.

[Meganeura]

2 minutes ago, Troodon said:

I think if the root were faked they would not make it look like this.  I also dont see anything different between either side of the root.  If you're buying this from someone in Indonesia my gut says its a one way sale. 

Buying these teeth is always risky unless its from a highly regarded domestic dealer who has experience with these teeth and solid connections to get better grade teeth, but you are paying for it.

Right, and that was also another reason I wanted to post here - if anyone has experience with direct sellers from Indonesia and wants to PM me, I'd appreciate it. 

I do realize it would most likely be one-way, although the seller did say I'd be able to return it if I wanted to. Part of the reason I liked this one so much is the shape - but also because it's broken on the one side I figured there's a higher chance it's real. 

[Phos_01]

The Tooth is real, but not in the best condition. Both lower corners are damaged, the overal blade looks good and serrations are still ok. Color is also nice

Root is what you typically get from Indo tooth. Could be partly fabricated, then again why would you leave it so broken up, it would not make any sense, so im guessing its real.

The other one you showed above has a 100% fabricated enhanced root to make it look bigger. Stay away from that one. 

You can buy the first tooth, but don't pay much. 

Better and same size Meg's are available. 

EDIT , I now see that the second one is the same tooth but worked on. Stay away from the whole thing is my advice.

Wait for a better and original one. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Phos_01

[Meganeura]

3 minutes ago, Phos_01 said:

The Tooth is real, but not in the best condition. Both lower corners are damaged, the overal blade looks good and serrations are still ok. Color is also nice

Root is what you typically get from Indo tooth. Could be partly fabricated, then again why would you leave it so broken up, it would not make any sense, so im guessing its real.

The other one you showed above has a 100% fabricated enhanced root to make it look bigger. Stay away from that one. 

You can buy the first tooth, but don't pay much. 

Better and same size Meg's are available. 

EDIT , I now see that the second one is the same tooth but worked on. Stay away from the whole thing is my advice.

Wait for a better and original one. 

 

 

Yeah they're all the same tooth! I appreciate the advice. 

[mr.cheese]

I have a few Indo / Java meg teeth and the root is often ropey as they are preserved in rock or sand stone generally. This does usually bring a really good enamel area with very good serrations but at the cost of either no root or poetic license on its size! I have one that actually has a shell trapped in the root!

[Meganeura]

So I think I'm just going to pass on the tooth and look for a better one from a more reputable dealer. Thanks everyone for the help!

[mr.cheese]

[mr.cheese]

It is a Pectin shell I believe, but with the root there this is about 10ft !

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

4 hours ago, mr.cheese said:

It is a Pectin shell I believe, but with the root there this is about 10ft !

 Do you mean 10 inches?

 

I'm not sure if this is a pectin. It's definitely not Pecten sp, but, assuming you mean pectinidae, I'm not seeing any ears or an umbo, and there doesn't appear to be prominent growth lines consistent with bivalves. It could be a brachiopod, but would need more pictures! If I can see correctly, your specimen also has teeth pegs along the commissure, a definite sign that this isn't a pectin - Shumway, Sandra E.; Parsons, G. Jay, eds. (22 September 2011). Scallops: Biology, Ecology and Aquaculture.

 

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

4 hours ago, Meganeura said:

So I think I'm just going to pass on the tooth and look for a better one from a more reputable dealer. Thanks everyone for the help!

 

No worries! It's always quite fun to um and ah about fossils, in my opinion - happy to help!

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

On 7/13/2022 at 8:14 PM, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

 Do you mean 10 inches?

 

I'm not sure if this is a pectin. It's definitely not Pecten sp, but, assuming you mean pectinidae, I'm not seeing any ears or an umbo, and there doesn't appear to be prominent growth lines consistent with bivalves. It could be a brachiopod, but would need more pictures! If I can see correctly, your specimen also has teeth pegs along the commissure, a definite sign that this isn't a pectin - Shumway, Sandra E.; Parsons, G. Jay, eds. (22 September 2011). Scallops: Biology, Ecology and Aquaculture.

 

 

@mr.cheese

[mr.cheese]

@IsaacTheFossilMan Hiya, sorry had a day off! I did mean 10ft as a joke seeing as so much had been added onto the original tooth in the thread! I am interested to get a more accurate id of the shell as I am only quoting the dealer I bought from so if that is wrong I can correct it!

Let me know if you need more pics?!

[mr.cheese]

They looked fine on my phone, I will take some more!

 

[mr.cheese]

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:15 AM, mr.cheese said:

@IsaacTheFossilMan Hiya, sorry had a day off! I did mean 10ft as a joke seeing as so much had been added onto the original tooth in the thread! I am interested to get a more accurate id of the shell as I am only quoting the dealer I bought from so if that is wrong I can correct it!

Let me know if you need more pics?!

 

 

Well, that joke flew over my head higher than the price of some of these meg teeth!

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

@mr.cheese If you create a new thread with the information about the tooth and shell, I will get to IDing it right away - it's better to create a new thread to help the future people searching for ID on a similar find!