Misha Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I am quite new to preparing and preserving fossils and am not very knowledgeable on resin coatings. I have been told that Poly Methyl Methacrylate has some similar properties to Paraloid and can be dissolved and used to coat fossils. Is there a reason it is not used for this purpose? Thank you very much for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Personally I use Vinac (from an old stock) Butvar 44 Butvar 72 and Butvar 76. as all of these have long histories of being used for fossils and do not seem to yellow over time. They are also quite reversible when used as a glue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, Malcolmt said: Personally I use Vinac (from an old stock) Butvar 44 Butvar 72 and Butvar 76. as all of these have long histories of being used for fossils and do not seem to yellow over time. They are also quite reversible when used as a glue. Where do you buy Butvar? I have seen some Paraloid on the auction site but not much Butvar the only one listing I saw did not have a number associated with it and was just called polyvinyl butyral not sure if that would be safe to use with the fossils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Misha said: Where do you buy Butvar? I have seen some Paraloid on the auction site but not much Butvar the only one listing I saw did not have a number associated with it and was just called polyvinyl butyral not sure if that would be safe to use with the fossils. You can buy Butvar B76 HERE. It is quite a bit more expensive than Paraloid B72. I just ordered my first bit of Paraloid as I am almost out of my stock of Vinac. Paraloid B72 is the preferred consolidation material for most projects at the AMNH (per Goldberg and Davidson 2014) Butvar B76 and Paraloid B72 are very similar. Butvar B98 is an oddball as it is insoluble in Acetone. It requires ethyl alcohol as a solvent which causes it to set slower and has a less glossy finish. 1 Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I purchased mine from Black Hills Institute but I do not believe they sell any more as they now sell premade Paleobond products 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Ptychodus04 said: Butvar B76 and Paraloid B72 are very similar. Butvar B98 is an oddball as it is insoluble in Acetone. It requires ethyl alcohol as a solvent which causes it to set slower and has a less glossy finish What concentrations would you recommend to use them in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Misha said: I am quite new to preparing and preserving fossils and am not very knowledgeable on resin coatings. I have been told that Poly Methyl Methacrylate has some similar properties to Paraloid and can be dissolved and used to coat fossils. Is there a reason it is not used for this purpose? Thank you very much for the info. You know that Poly Methyl Methacrylate is commonly called Plexiglas, right? If you research the properties of Plexiglas you can compare its characteristics to those of other materials and decide which has the properties you deem most desirable for the specimen in question. There is no right or wrong -- only more suitable for the given circumstances. In all cases, the less intrusively you can achieve the desired results, the better. Less is more. Personally, though I have never used it, I would imagine that it would tend to "pool" more because of its molecular structure creating an "extremely wet" appearance, and also because of the solvents used, di- and trichloromethane (chloroform) I would opt for something else. 1 Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Malcolmt said: Butvar 76. What concentration of it do use when coating your fossils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I actually rarely coat. I am a bit of a purest on my own fossils. I only use it when the fossil needs it for consolidation. If the prep is for someone else I generally ask them what their preference is. Not super precise but about 5%. Quite thin crystal clear so when the acetone evaporates it is a super thin film 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, Malcolmt said: I actually rarely coat. I am a bit of a purest on my own fossils. I only use it when the fossil needs it for consolidation. If the prep is for someone else I generally ask them what their preference is. Not super precise but about 5%. Quite thin crystal clear so when the acetone evaporates it is a super thin film I'm with Malcomt on this one... rarely ever is there a need to coat a fossil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I only coat when the fossil needs to be stabilized to keep it from falling apart. Often, fish require some stabilization as their bones tend to flake. I measure my solution 1 part plastic to 50 parts acetone by weight or volume. As @Malcolmt said, it’s not exact, you just need something that has a very low viscosity to allow it to soak in. 1 Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 And please be aware that inhaling acetone fumes will eventually kill you. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 12 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said: And please be aware that inhaling acetone fumes will eventually kill you. IMHO, definitely not medical advice... Hobbyist exposure to acetone is rather innocuous if done properly. Getting it on your skin gives you a significantly higher dose than breathing limited vapors. If you are going to be working with it often, you should take measures to prevent skin exposure (and wear a respirator) as it is a general solvent which is easily absorbed into the body and can dissolve the cell membrane. That being said, when prepping, it’s not one’s biggest concern. Dust is far more concerning as the preparator is exposed to it on a far more regular occurrence. Lung protection comes in here as well. A quality respirator is a must. 1 Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Ptychodus04 said: IMHO, definitely not medical advice... Hobbyist exposure to acetone is rather innocuous if done properly. Getting it on your skin gives you a significantly higher dose than breathing limited vapors. If you are going to be working with it often, you should take measures to prevent skin exposure (and wear a respirator) as it is a general solvent which is easily absorbed into the body and can dissolve the cell membrane. That being said, when prepping, it’s not one’s biggest concern. Dust is far more concerning as the preparator is exposed to it on a far more regular occurrence. Lung protection comes in here as well. A quality respirator is a must. I'm old and back in the day acetone was considered 'toxic', and I didn't believe what Ptychodus said, so I just did some research. Lo and behold, it was removed from the list of toxic chemicals in 1995, and nobody told me. The wikipedia info says that it is only mildly harmful if breathed or ingested or brought into contact with the skin. So many of the things that were once established 'facts' are being blown out of the water in recent times it makes me question everything I learned. 1 Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said: So many of the things that were once established 'facts' are being blown out of the water in recent times it makes me question everything I learned. It’s always good to question everything you’ve learned. I’ve grown a lot by doing that regularly. 1 Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said: So many of the things that were once established 'facts' are being blown out of the water in recent times it makes me question everything I learned. Yes, definitely. While working with my 3d printed parts I was once told that acetone is a carcinogen, but a quick Google search disproved that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I use acetone with my Butvar B76. I use it in well ventilated areas because of the smell. Keep ignition sources away since acetone is very flammable. You do not want to combust. While doing online research on the hazards of acetone, I came across an article that suggested that human metabolism could produce too much acetone that could lead to spontaneous combustion. https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2012/12/how-to-avoid-spontaneously-combusting.html 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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