Jesuslover340

Show Us Your Croc, Gator, and Turtle Material!

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@Harry Pristis Very interesting to see the comparisons between Aussie croc verts and American gator verts...with the hindsight of knowing how very rare croc material in Aus is (which is kind of odd)...

Any idea as to the aforementioned claw?

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A claw core from the Pleistocene of OZ?!  Sorry, no help here.

 

But, here's a North American tortoise claw core:

 

 

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@Harry Pristis Yes :P

Most of the experts seem to settle on it being "reptilian" (croc/turtle)...or possibly bird. If I knew for certain which of those it was, the species could be identified.

 

It looks kind of similar to that, but more elongate and has blood vessel (?) lines on either side.

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I have been away for a few weeks.  Great thread.  Here are a few observations i have made on tortoises in the whaite river fm.  Tortoise layers are easy in enough to to find in the White River.  I think the accumulation discussed earlier in this thread shows what is to be seen when erosion basically exposes a tortoise layer.  This does not explain howthey came to be, but ...  Another thing... I rarely ever find any mammals in the tortoise layers.  And addtionally, mammals generally do not show up in such distinct lsyers. 

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Agreed. Great fossils all around.

 

Wild theory - maybe it was a specialized mating ground for turtles?

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On 12/23/2016 at 10:08 AM, Canadawest said:

 

I'm too lazy to photograph a lot of it.   Here's a few older photos. Low resolution so not much detail. These are all 'crocodilia'.  I have no idea what is the difference between croc and Allogator in the Cretaceous. 

 

An occiptal condyle. ( skull attach hinge).  Likely 'Liedyosuchus candadensis'

 

Scutes

 

Pointed scutes

 

Some croc material and other verts in one of my display cases ( including jaw section).  I change my museum displays every few months.

 

Variety of teeth from range of Late Cretaceous deposits

 

Croc teeth with worn tips

 

We find these 'hunk of junk' croc bones among dino and turtle remains.  Both turtle and croc are almost always found together.

 

 

 

 

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Hey canadawest... these pointed scutes are palmar 'scutes' of Basilemys.  They have a half dozen of these on the palm/soles of their feet.  I wouold call the big piece of sculpted shell Basilemys as well.  Nice finds. 

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6 hours ago, jpc said:

Hey canadawest... these pointed scutes are palmar 'scutes' of Basilemys.  They have a half dozen of these on the palm/soles of their feet.  I wouold call the big piece of sculpted shell Basilemys as well.  Nice finds. 

 

Very interesting looking osteoderms. I managed to find a photo of similar osteoderms from a Cretaceous turtle Proganochelys in a Cretaceous Research paper "Morphology, histology and identification of the granicones from the Purbeck Limestone Formation of Dorset, Southern England".

 

 

turtle spur2.jpg

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My modest participation. A piece of carettochelyidae shell bone from mifune formation, japan.

 

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Here is some croc material from the Black Creek Group, all from a single site in North Carolina. The first is a 45 mm. long Deinosuchus tooth. The other tooth is tiny, about 4 mm. The osteoderm is also very small.

 

 

Deinosuchus.JPG

blackcreekcroc.jpg

osteoderm.jpg

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13 hours ago, jpc said:

Hey canadawest... these pointed scutes are palmar 'scutes' of Basilemys.  They have a half dozen of these on the palm/soles of their feet.  I wouold call the big piece of sculpted shell Basilemys as well.  Nice finds. 

 

Thanks!  That's an eye opener.

 

I find big fragments of this type of textured shell every now and then. Its more textured  than the other turtle material we find...thus why I assumed it was croc.  Basilemys is not as widespread as fragments from Trionyx and I have only found it in the Campanian.

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5 hours ago, Canadawest said:

 

Thanks!  That's an eye opener.

 

I find big fragments of this type of textured shell every now and then. Its more textured  than the other turtle material we find...thus why I assumed it was croc.  Basilemys is not as widespread as fragments from Trionyx and I have only found it in the Campanian.

I was just at the Denver Museum where they showed me some incredible Basilemys specimens from the Hell Creek of North Dakota.  I have found one piece similar to your shell frag, and never any isolated microscutes like yours.  And I spend a lot of time in our local Maastrichtian.  NIce finds. 

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Here I have a croc tooth from Barbour and Russell Counties of Alabama.

 

The University of Alabama confirms it to be Deinosuchus. Though Terrence who gave me the teeth hunts in the area often, and he thinks they could well be Bottosaurus. Both species dwell there.

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@-Andy- Nice tooth! Never heard of the latter before, but after glancing at some images on the web, it certainly looks like it! I could not find any depictions, however =/

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One of my favorite specimens...

 

scute.jpg

 

...a tiny Crocodylian osteoderm from the Late Cretaceous (Campanian) Fruitland formation of New Mexico.

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What a pretty little thing.

 

From a juvenile perhaps?

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6 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

From a juvenile perhaps?

 

I think so. 

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Aww it's so cute!

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On 12/28/2016 at 7:10 AM, Al Dente said:

...the Black Creek Group...tooth is tiny, about 4 mm. The osteoderm is also very small...

blackcreekcroc.jpg

osteoderm.jpg

 

@Al Dente, this is really neat material you have here...it reminds me of some of the Brachychampsa material I have seen from the Menfee and Kirtland/Fruitland Formations here in NM.

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1 hour ago, PFOOLEY said:

 

@Al Dente, this is really neat material you have here...it reminds me of some of the Brachychampsa material I have seen from the Menfee and Kirtland/Fruitland Formations here in NM.

 

I think there is a good chance that this is Brachychampsa.

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I like to keep my 'smallest' croc material in coin holders. I have a couple pages for each of the various Cretaceous formations. This way I can easily access them in a binder for comparison, etc.  If specimens are larger then I'll put them in small zip plastic holders and into my plastic storage boxes. 

 

Having said this, not that many different small elements to curate...teeth, scutes and a few claws.  I have containers of small bones but i wouldnt know most croc material from other smaller reptiles. 

 

Perhaps somday I'll get around to identifying a lot of these specimens...but I've said that every year for a couple of decades. :blink:

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That's a lot of croc material! Who knows what goldmine you could uncover?

 

Make it your new year resolution :P

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48 minutes ago, -Andy- said:

That's a lot of croc material! Who knows what goldmine you could uncover?

 

Make it your new year resolution :P

 

My resolution for the last 5 years is not to collect any new specimens of anything. However,  My partner still finds the odd raptor tooth, etc. at the bottom of the washing machine after doing the laundry. I'll stick something in my pocket to show her out in the badlands and forget about it.

 

Back to turtles. All rather puzzling.  We find zillions of turtle shell in all formations and at just about all levels. However, 99% is just fragments of a variety of turtle shell. Rarely more than a couple fragments that go together. Now and then we find an ungual, femur end or clavicle.  This is 'the only'  mostly intact Cretaceous turtle shell I have found that was more than half complete.   A soft-shelled Trionyx. Its about 32 cm in diameter.

IMG_6238.JPG

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My favorite gator fossil from 18 months ago..

VolcanoBlowUp.jpg

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I like the coin holders idea.  Here are a few of my croc fossils from my display cabinet.IMG_2310b.jpg

 

The two metapodials front and center and all the scutes to the right of them are form one animal.  Its is amazing how many scutes these things had/have.  I have a lower jaw to it too,but not here.  That animal is Eocene.  The scutes in front of the vertebrae and the verts as well are all a mixed bag from Eocene and Cretaceous sites.  

 

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This is a mixed bag of all sorts of croc pieces, and a few turds on the left.  

 

 

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a small scute 

 

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and a few verts and a claw.  

 

Crocodilian pieces are among the most common things we find here in the Eocene and Cretaceous beds of Wyoming.  

 

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On 12/21/2016 at 9:32 AM, Minnesota Nice said:

My understanding is that these mass death layers are not uncommon in the White River Formation. It was interesting that I found no other vert evidence in the area.

 

I'll see your Romans 14:19 and raise you Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

 

 

In the early 90's I was prospecting on a ranch in northwestern Nebraska and stumbled into a similar scene - "exploded" turtle shells all over the place.  They were in even worse shape than the ones you show.  I looked for something salvageable but it was too late - no limb bones either.

 

 

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