Bradley Flynn Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 @Antonjo I think you have enough of these specimens to spare, can you break one up and take pics? I think it would be interesting to see if a freshly broken surface reveals another clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bradley Flynn said: @Antonjo I think you have enough of these specimens to spare, can you break one up and take pics? I think it would be interesting to see if a freshly broken surface reveals another clue. Ofcourse , I already did it, here is freshly broken piece. And just to say, that they feel pretty soft on touch, I can almost scratch them with my nail, and they are easily broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Flynn Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 @Antonjo These are a mystery to me. If I where in your position and really wanting to figure out what these are, I would go to the site and look for more clues there. Is there a certain layer it's coming from? could it be a natural geological cast? Is there man made buildings or trash near by? Is there other shaped objects that is made up of the same material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Travertine dripstone? LINK Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: Travertine dripstone? LINK I am leaning that way also, that sort of geologic is known in the area, but, wow, what a seriously large formation. I'm starting to think now that unless teeth or other fragments or found at the site, karstic flowstone/travertine may be the most likely. What is interesting is the varying degrees of hardness reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Bradley Flynn said: @Antonjo These are a mystery to me. If I where in your position and really wanting to figure out what these are, I would go to the site and look for more clues there. Is there a certain layer it's coming from? could it be a natural geological cast? Is there man made buildings or trash near by? Is there other shaped objects that is made up of the same material? No specific layer, all found on the surface, it is in an olive orchard, maybe 200 meters from nearest house. There are no other shapes of same material. Here is picture of surroundings just to get an impression 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Antonjo said: Today I stopped by at the location, and collected some more samples. I didn't find anything like tooth, but I found one piece which has it's other half Here are the photos. Here is my best guess: The bottom photo appears to be hardened mud (lime?) that coated a dissolved fossil: an exterior mold. The fossil dissolved away. The water rich mud dehydrated, that is why most of the rocks have cracks. Can anyone think of what the mud might have covered? I bet that the other side of the many pieces in the top photo looks rather plain, no fossil impressions. Edited October 2, 2020 by DPS Ammonite 1 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, LabRatKing said: What is interesting is the varying degrees of hardness Sorry if I was confusing, but all are of the same degree of hardnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 20 hours ago, JohnJ said: @Antonjo can you get a few sharp closeups of pieces showing the best detail? @Antonjo Great photos of the broken edges. It appears to be calcite based. The geology in the site photos shows karstic limestone. Is there any surface detail on the 'keeled' side? 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 23 hours ago, JohnJ said: @Antonjo Great photos of the broken edges. It appears to be calcite based. The geology in the site photos shows karstic limestone. Is there any surface detail on the 'keeled' side? Here it is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 @Antonjo Thanks. Is there any surface detail on this piece? 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I think, your very nice specimens indicate a geological formation for me, something appropriate to a decomposed septarian concretion (as I said before). I could be wrong, but I can't see fossils there. 1 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 10/4/2020 at 9:15 AM, JohnJ said: @Antonjo Thanks. Is there any surface detail on this piece? Here it is, little cleaner, and other side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Thanks, @Antonjo. It appears this mystery can only be solved with additional complete specimens. I'm leaning toward a geologic origin, too. 2 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 +1 for geological origin. Unfortunately, however, I'm not too versed in geological phenomena, so I'll be keeping an eye on what other people make of it 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertramp Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 All the specimens appear to have a central ridge and two cylindrical grooves; if the “standard type” shape is similar to that of the image below, then it would be strange for that shape to be replicated for so many bio-geological objects (concretions around plant matter?); or could they be portions of a single elongated and fragmented object? Or of a a larger surface? In both cases I don't think they are of geological/organic origin…maybe something related to human activity s.l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Intriguing. maybe something like clay covering a wicker/stick structure? Best Regards, J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Here is geological map of the area Exact location is of flysch (sandstones and marl), lens of calcarenite and calcirudite (3E23 on map legend) Geo map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I think, these represent geological features, not too much diagenetically transformed. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 I tried to burn it and it smolders, smokes and turn to black ashes.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranzBernhard Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Antonjo said: I tried to burn it and it smolders, smokes and turn to black ashes.. Now that´s a real surprise! @abyssunder, @LabRatKing, @supertramp, @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon, @JohnJ, @DPS Ammonite, @Fossildude19, @Bradley Flynn Would you like to show us some of the smoldering, smoke and ash? Many thanks! (I never had an idea what this things could be, but followed the discussion with great interest. So much to learn, thanks to all!) Franz Bernhard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) Weird. @Antonjo Does it melt or soften before it burns? I wonder if it could be some sort of caulk, plastic or adhesive that dried out and cracked. Is this material found only on the surface? Is it found inside of a solid rock unit? Edited October 13, 2020 by DPS Ammonite My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlesteve Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Well then... if it’s organic material, it reminds me of wire insulation for a two-conductor wire. Or, maybe some type of putty used for such a purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonjo Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 When I have time, I'll take photos, maybe today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, turtlesteve said: Well then... if it’s organic material, it reminds me of wire insulation for a two-conductor wire. Or, maybe some type of putty used for such a purpose. Yeah, that was also my first thought, when @Antonjo said it can be burnt (be careful burning this stuff, though, as the fumes may very well turn out toxic!). Some kind of decayed (old?) wiring insulation. So, questions arise like: Was the soil disturbed at the find location? Has there been any known human activity in the area, including, but not limited to, the laying of cables, the dumping of trash, industrial manufacture, etc.? Did the material melt, or just turn to ash? What colour was the smoke produced? I was also thinking that it could still be chalk, since I believe chalk can be burnt - although I would have no idea how this would look... Photographs of the process and resulting ashes might be informative, though. 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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