Adventures in Balance. A Peace River fossil journal.

[Balance]

@Shellseeker 

 

I appreciate your insight and appreciation of the  entire process. 
 

With my search for Equus sesamoids I initially thought it looked like a giant sesamoid bone. Then my brain just went auto and I said, “this is a knee cap!” 
 

Didn’t take super long to ID because of how few animals have true kneecaps!!   Things you learn along the way. 
 

Im sure you’ll meet “L.A.” on the river one day. She’s pretty rad. 
 

Thanks, Jack!! 
 

Jp

[automech]

Man!! This is too funny. The house was empty when I got home last night, so, I had a quiet dinner. Then sat in my recliner, started thinking of your idea and, almost to the tee, came up with same solution. The trick will be the length. If, say, you're up to your chest, I imagine it would be challenging to hold the shovel handle and the new handle and get the matrix into the screen. I don't know.  Waist high water levels would be easier, of course. Maybe, make a few different lengths and try them out on site. Should be easy to swap out. Good luck!

[Balance]

@automech excellent idea. I’ll make a short and longer version. For testing purposes I can just tighten the outer nuts so it can’t swivel in order to try stationary vrs articulating. 
 

Definitely gonna have to be a try it out deal. I can find positive and negative aspects of both ideas on “paper”. 
 

I’m starting to think @Shellseekeris secretly a free diver turned fossil hunter. The deep water shovel is his cover. He just sits on the bottom and looks at stuff.  

 

Jp

 

[automech]

Looking forward to seeing the final product.

 

Yeah. I don't know about those shell pickers. Seem like a shifty bunch. 

[Balance]

We ride at dawn! 
 

ITurn left and keep going. Then keep going some more. 
 

jp
 

[automech]

How are the temps so far? Water and air.

[Shellseeker]

37 minutes ago, automech said:

How are the temps so far? Water and air.

jp_ will have to answer for himself..  

I suppose it is based on preference.. I love warm air and deep cool water.  I was wearing 2mm pants with 3 mm jacket yesterday.  At 85 degrees air temp and possibly low 70s water temps in 5 feet of water... perfect. perfect.. perfect.

[Balance]

Cold, Grey Light of Dawn:

 

Oddly, another Sunday session for Balance and I. Until lately I’ve always avoided the weekends, but it seems that by the time I’m clear for launch the week is about to start again. I’ll take what I can get! Grateful!

 

 

 

 

The current dig is pretty far from the ramp. Far enough that most wouldn’t want to paddle there. Let alone back. This normally gives me the false illusion of solitude. Even on the weekends when it’s often a very busy, recreational river. Sunday morning was so foggy it seemed doubtful to see anyone around the corner. Let alone where I was heading. 
 

Made a B-line for the hole I left a couple weeks back. Been thinking about it for a while and was looking forward to getting further into it. The new wetsuit was getting a try today too. Luckily it was incredibly warm because the fog stuck around until almost noon. Silently past the camp of the only vehicles at the ramp and from there was all mine! So nice of them to make people in a blanket for the various river monsters.  - onward into the mist. I am Ahab!

 

There wasn’t time to make the new shovel handle. Which worked out perfect because I figured out a system to remove the entire step that was causing me issues. Now I know exactly how to attempt the handle design. Same idea as discussed before @automech but some tweaks. Definitely articulated!!!! More to come on that. 
 

It was a good session. Currently, I’m working the hole in a layered “dig site” kinda idea. Just underwater, I guess. Trying to keep this slightly organized. The problem with just digging holes Willynilly/wherever is the sift tailings. Under the sieve you’re gonna get a PILE of gravel and a corresponding trail of sand deposit heading down stream. So I’m leaving my sieve far enough to the side of the deposit that my tailings aren’t covering up a future excavation.
 

(Instead I’m covering up an apple snail bed because I HATE apple snails. 

Equation/Fact: Apple snails in sieve = zero fossils in sieve. This will need further research)
 

The hole starts 3.5’ underwater and isn’t noticeable until you fall off the side. Even in full sun you can’t see it.  I’m hoping it stays hidden. This is the main spot I’ve been after since water levels went up last spring and I intend to stay here all season if the gravel last. Which should not be an issue.
 

So this trip I tried to dig what is best described as a step pyramid inverted down into the riverbed. I made it to about 5’ square in circumference and 2.5’ down at its center. I can go another 1-1.5’ down with my current setup. So if i continue to pull the deeper center depth back towards the outer walls I can level out the hole and start digging the hard packed layer under 2.5/3’ without loosing the exposed material to the walls collapsing on top of it. Once I complete this squares excavation I’ll move over 5’ and start again. Eventually processing the bulk of the deposit. 

 

Nose cone was looking good about half way through the morning. Found a mascot for the day too. I named her, Blackwater Fairy. 
 

The fog made my experience today extremely local. Kept me looking at the clear and present. This really helped me map out the plan for the underwater exploration. Today I didn’t make it much deeper than I’ve been working so far this season but I already noticed a difference in the sieve. Just slightly deeper than I’ve been getting and the fossil size is increasing. Can’t wait for the next couple feet! 

 

The discoveries:

 

I found 6 tortoises spurs! Some in better shape than others but so many different sizes. Also found a rare tiger shark tooth and some mammal teeth for ID. Enough to keep me occupied on my breaks from work. I was able to use my Florida Fossil Sampler from Harry on two IDs and I’m really glad I picked that up. Made the process far less complicated /confusing. Honestly not sure I’d have completed the astragalus ID without it. 
 

So let’s take a look!

 

1: Leg Spurs - Osteoderms

These are some really nice spurs. Not huge but lots of clean detail. Nicest 3 of the day. 

 

2: Deer Astragalus - Odocoileus Virginiaus

So either there’s a bunch of miss-ID’d deer astragalus on the web or peccary astragalus is almost identical. Using the fossil sampler I was able to compare side by side to a known deer astralagas and I think it has enough consistent markers to call my find a deer. 

 

Darker example in comparison photos is from the ID sampler.  With my new edition I have both sides!!

 

 

3: Blackwater Fairy 

Her name is Stella Winx. She’s from 2013 and came in McDonalds happy meals. So for 10 years she’s been figuring out life on her own. At least it’s probably cramped in a happy meal box like it is buried under the riverbed.  

 

 

4: Sharks teeth of note 

 

-My biggest Hemi Serra of the day 

-A rare - Galeocerdo Mayumbensis - Tiger shark

-I THINK - this is my first mako? The simplicity of the profile and bulkier thickness are what leads me to that opinion. Gotta start somewhere. The thing about a broken/worn tooth you haven’t seen yet is that means there’s a chance for my act specimens! 

 

 

5: Deer tooth - Odocoileus Virginiaus - M3 Right side 

Instead of just accepting the species I tried to ID which tooth. Using my sampler again I was able to rule out the lower because the shapes of the teeth are a little different/pointy. Sizes weren’t off but this tooth has a radical pitch to the inside of the tooth. It also has a tiny stylid in between the cusp like the photo example. The problem with it being an  M1/M2 molar was it wasn’t big enough. Then I realized the M3 is smaller and matches the radical pitch of the tooth. Complete with tiny stylid.  
 

 

Harry P’s gallery images above and my lower  jaw section below. 

 

6: This S.o.B…. 

 

My eye locked in on this upside down. Spent the better part of an hour researching claws, toe nails, talons etc. let’s just say none of those things work like this in any way. That’s because it’s a tooth. Incisor. BOS!!!!  Most likely anyway. My only concern is there’s no center core to the  enamel section of the tooth. So I think it might be a young calf tooth that got dropped? 
 

7: Pig M2 - right side ??

 

This screams pig at me from the sides but the chewing surface is weird. Lowers don’t match the profile but the upper M2 does. I think it’s just wear that changed the chewing surface. Older pig maybe? 

 

 

8: Mystery!!!! 

 

Any and all guesses welcome. Defined core and outer wall. That’s all I got.  Sloth tooth frag? 
 

 

9 - 13: 

 

Fun and unique stuff. 
 

9: this feels like sand. Not rock. It’s concave on the underside and convex on the top. My first impression was a cast of a mollusk or clam type shell. Looks like the shape of the Ray de tickle but I’ve never seen one of those to compare. At this level of detail I don’t know. 
 

10: Sponges and other undersea creatures. Maybe more. Waiting for Jacks discussion on similar finds to finish before I start learning what to learn. 

 

11: Glyptodont (is this the correct term for general ID) outer shell. It was so much more distinctive when it was wet. Largest complete section so far. One day I’ll find a whole section. 
 

12: small fish vert , medium fish vert (substantially fossilized/older than the others) and a beautifully intact snake very too. 
 

13: I know it’s just a shell cast but the deeper I get the more complete I’ve found these. Found an intact example in the last trip and an even bigger one this round. 
 

 

 

Fun trip. WHAT IS ALL ABOUT! Learned more about the process and the area. Came home with treasures and then used the thinker again to find info on stuff.  - 

 

on that note: Thank you again to everyone who’s dedicating the time to posting these ID gallery images. Priceless resources. 
 

 

To close this week I’ll leave you with Mike, the rainbow beetle. Reminding us all to be who we are. Let your freak flag fly, Mike. Let it fly. 

 

Keep the faith and try to do good!!

 

Jp
 

 

 

[Balance]

1 hour ago, automech said:

How are the temps so far? Water and air.

 
Low 70’s and cold without the sun. I wore 2mm shorts and a 3mm long sleeve jacket Sunday as well. I was warm but still missing the sun in the fog. 
 

Once the sun came out I was absolutely perfect in that gear. So I guess a 5mm full shorty suit would be next if the water gets another 5 deg cooler. 
 

Jp

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, Balance said:

5: Deer tooth - Odocoileus Virginiaus - M3 Left side 

Instead of just accepting the species I tried to ID which tooth. Using my sampler again I was able to rule out the lower because the shapes of the teeth are a little different/poiny. Sizes weren’t off but this tooth has a radical pitch to the inside of the tooth. It also has a tiny stylid in between the cusp like the photo example. The problem with it being an  M1/M2 molar was it wasn’t big enough. Then I realized the M3 is smaller and matches the radical pitch of the tooth. Complete with tiny stylid.  

Great finds....

4. You are still searching for your 1st Mako

5.  I like your style... The only way to learn is to find out all you can about every fossil you find... !!

Certainly, you have to ID each tooth, so eventually you will ID tooth position as it lands in your sieve.

2 hours ago, Balance said:

7: Pig M2 - right side ??

 

This screams pig at me from the sides but the chewing surface is weird. Lowers don’t match the profile but the upper M2 does. I think it’s just wear that changed the chewing surface. Older pig maybe? 

 

Not pig... Deer , Llama like

8.  Mammoth tooth frag

10.  If mine is Bryozoan,  one or more of yours is also

12.  Middle.. Look up Filefish....

2 hours ago, Balance said:

Fun trip. WHAT IS ALL ABOUT! Learned more about the process and the area. Came home with treasures and then used the thinker again to find info on stuff.  - 

Do the hokey pokey.... that's ........

[automech]

Great report and finds! Love the preservation on Stella! Good color retention.

My youngest (8) asked me Sunday : "when can we go out again?" Music to my ears. So, I'll get to try out some new chest waders for a second time in much colder weather. First time was in early May. I'm hoping to go next weekend. 

[Balance]

@Shellseeker Thank you! Love your reply’s. Much better grade on todays test. 😄

 

Heres the sample camelid tooth I have with the incorrectly labeled pig molar. Now I see it. The size threw me at first. Didn’t even consider it. I did think the chewing surface looked camelid but the squatty look threw me off. 
 

That little flourish on the  inside of both is a giveaway. 
 

 

@automech

 

Thank you!! 
 

waders are not my favorite… 

 

My uncle started me outdoors. He would take me duck hunting with him. Insane the places I’ve stood in alligator filled swamps. Truthfully I hated it. Loved going. Hated killing the birds. So I’d miss. Lol. Problem was I’d destroy some clay pigeons. Whoops. He figured it out and we started going exploring on the lakes and creeks in Lakewales, Florida instead. Last trip before we stopped hunting I went with him on an exceptionally cold Dec morning. I hopped in my spot and we hunted for hours without a single fly by. My waders had a leak but I figured I’d just deal with it. I was so hypothermic by the time he drove across the opening to get me I was blue lipped. FROZE! on the boat ride back to the ramp and finally got warm in the truck about half way home. 

 

Reach out if you need a place to go or want company. Balance can carry all the things.   I’m crazier than a sprayed roach until my holiday orders are finish so maybe  after the first of the year for an outing together? My youngest is 9. As soon as her cast comes off she’s gonna start coming with again. Killing her to stay home when I go on weekends. 
 

Jp

 

Stella has begun a new phase of her journey. She’s hanging with Chucky on the grinder station. Maybe one day I’ll take her to Cayo Costa and complete her journey to the sea.  

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Balance

[Shellseeker]

23 minutes ago, Balance said:

Heres the sample camelid tooth I have with the incorrectly labeled pig molar. Now I see it. The size threw me at first. Didn’t even consider it. I did think the chewing surface looked camelid but the squatty look threw me off. 
 

That little flourish on the  inside of both is a givea

Interesting little tooth...

You might find this thread interesting

 

[Balance]

@Shellseeker

So camel deer hybrid.  Since it’s December they probably look like this. 
 

Thank you.  

 

Jp

 

[Shellseeker]

10 minutes ago, Balance said:

So camel deer hybrid.  Since it’s December they probably look like this. 
 

Thank you.  

My find is Eocoileus, a Pliocene deer VERY rare in our hunting area.  Your looks similar... but what is its exact size.... 

[automech]

" I was so hypothermic by the time he drove across the opening to get me I was blue lipped." 

Poor kid!! I can image your uncle saying "it builds character" or, "it'll put hair on your chest" 

That's mighty kind of you. The last time we were in FLA was spring of 2019. My wife's aunt & uncle live in Ft. Pierce (he's the one who got us into crazy-fun hobby). So, we'll have to see what the future holds. When we do make it down, though, I'll have to rent a jon boat or something to haul me and the five remaining kids in my house. 

[Balance]

@Shellseeker

 

Sorry for the delay, Jack! Had to put my nose to the grindstone for a bit and get my work done. 
 

Here are fresh images and the measurements 

 

Anterior/Posterior- 15-16mm 

width - 14-15mm

Crown Height not including root - 7-8mm 

 

I apologize in advance but I’ll be away again until after cub scouts is over. 
 

Jp

 

[Shellseeker]

5 hours ago, Balance said:

I apologize in advance but I’ll be away again until after cub scouts is over.  Jp

 

No apologies necessary, jp.  We will always assume that life interferes, 

 

So, back in February,  I found my 1st Pliocene deer which was smaller then modern deer and naturally has smaller teeth and there is a little variation in the shape of the teeth.  Your find reminded me of that February tooth..  and I did not have the size,  Comparing 12 x 8 to 15 x 14 probably indicates that you have a normal sized deer tooth...  I always hope to find the unusual

[Balance]

@Shellseeker As you mentioned in the linked thread… 

 

Still an interesting tooth that did way more than probably expected. First I had my other deer tooth ID as the left M3 and it was in fact the right. Which means this tooth of interest might just be the left M3. Again with the pitch, size , profile, and the rear molar would have a great amount more wear. Especially if the deer had anxiety or PTSD from previous smilidon and dire wolf attacks.  
 

I learned the camelid and deer teeth are very similar compared side by side. Even in the way the morphology of the outer cusp flows. 
 

I learned yet again I should go with my first instinct. Unless it’s claws…

 

Jp
 

 

[Balance]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:20 PM, automech said:

" rent a John boat” 

 

Ha! We can do better than that. We need about 6 plastic barrels  from the horse farms and a couple sheets of plywood. Raft city! Add a layer of indoor grass carpet and some chairs and you are ready to ride!  
 

Heck, we can mount the 2stroke on it and they could probably hit 1-2mph, downstream.  

[automech]

Why do I hear the Little Big Town country song "Pontoon" in my head as I read this. 

[Balance]

I’m just gonna leave this Gem right here…
 

Jack’s brand new, A guy 14 years ago is basically inside my head today, and right as it’s getting good, Harry shuts the whole darn thing down!   

 

Time Travel in 3,2,1 —
 

Jp

Edited December 10, 2023 by Balance

[Balance]

Tomorrow is a terrible day to go fossil hunting. Forecast is for overcast skies , chill temps, and WINDY!! 25 mph gust! River’s probably in the 60’s too. 

We leave at dawn! Bring your wetsuit…

 

Jp and Millie

 

- Millie will not be in wet suit attire. Mines kinda matchy matchy so don’t judge. 
 

FYI: this is Lucy. AkA “The Goose”. She’s rad and Millie is teaching her to be good.  She’s not old enough for the river yet but maybe in a couple years.  I think this photo  is a good measure of our group’s intensity.  Ride or die 

[Balance]

Getting one in before the Storm:

 

It was a miserable day in Florida this past Friday. Overcast, chilly, and windy with river water temps in the 60’s. Typically this would be a “do something else” day, but the forecast this weekend was for 2-6” of rain. If that came to fruition the water level would be way up for a couple weeks or more and I’d be sidelined for hunting in the spot I’m focusing on this season. 
 

 

 

So Millie and I grabbed our warmest wetsuit gear and headed out early Friday morning. I figured I could be miserable for a few hours at the worst but was hopeful the new wetsuit would be enough. It wasn’t. 3/2mm long sleeve shorty wasn’t thick enough for these conditions and I had to abandon the deep water hole and start another one about 25 feet up river. Maybe without the wind blowing I’d have been warm enough but no idea about wetsuit theory other than google info. The problem I’m having is that I don’t stay submerged very long so I’m constantly going in and out of the cold. Maybe I’m missing something? Millie was in heaven. She found the weather ideal. 
 

Both locations are in the same gravel bed. The shallower being upstream towards the start of the underground pileup. The water here was only mid thigh deep so I managed to dig a pretty good amount and stay warm. Only real negative was my back was more tired at the end of the day than it is in the deep water location.

 

 

 I wasn’t expecting to learn something from this setback but as usual the river provides what’s needed.
 

Here are my thoughts about today. 
 

- digging the first couple down feet is necessary to get to the bigger fossils but it’s time consuming and I seem to find the same size/type of fossils in this fresh layer at the top. Not time wasted or fossil void. Just not what I’m looking for. 
 

- because trips are not open ended on time digging the start of these holes is subtracting from time I have before needing to head back in. I could be digging deep enough to be productive longer if this first step was removed. 
 

- if I have holes already dug in this gravel deposit at different  spots/depths I could choose which of the holes works best for that day’s conditions. Because these holes are already started it’s a “pick up at optimum depth” situation instead of loosing a couple hours getting a new hole opened up. Basically you have multiple options to pick up where you left off instead of being stuck on one. If you have the knowledge to have multiple sites with different materials, even more choices. 
 

- a thicker wetsuit is needed at these weather conditions. 
 

 

So that’s what I did. Dug another hole and saved it for later. Even drug some downed limbs over top of the shallower hole so it’s hidden. The deep water hole is fine. It even managed to maintain its “steps” and ramp. That was 10 days ago or more.  I can’t see a hobby hunter committing to going under water in order to drag the shovel back out of the hole. So I’m resting easier on it staying a secret. 
 

——
 

Here’s the lot for Friday morning. Few hours digging and sifting was all I had time for. Definitely excited to start at the bottom of one of these holes  next trip. 
 

Deeper down seems to yield bigger fossils and I got to cross a big one off my list! 

 

it was apparently ‘Learn your vertebrae day’  today. No shortage and I tossed some broken verts back too!

 

The Big one is a Bo’s C5?

The lighter colored larger vert is a whitetail deer - Odocoileus Virginiaus - 

 

Then examples of alligator, fish , snake and a mystery! 

 

Added to my Calcaneum collection with the addition of this Bos - Cowcaneum  

 

Odocoileus Virginiaus - white tail deer sampler - 

vert, astragalus, antler crown and tyne. Small lower molar and a larger molar. It’s the only one I cant get a profile shape with, but my examples for comparison are younger and smaller deer. I don’t know anything about llamas yet but it’s just a little big for deer. Maybe that’s the right direction? Maybe deer teeth just look different when they are worn down?

 

This little bugger made my trip!!! Not just a dolphin tooth but a full dolphin tooth and it’s beautiful to boot!! 

 

 

Question for the Tortoise experts: 

 

I found the middle size bone and it appears very similar to the Osteoderms in structure but it has multiple articulation points on it. 
 

Photo panels below show a small Osteoderm and a huge Osteoderms for comparison. The lower panel are close ups of the bone in question. I’m wondering if it’s an internal leg bone and if so how can you possibly figure out what?

 

 

What type of rock is this? Basically these grab my eye as fossils or teeth and when wet they are even more deceiving. As you can see inside is pure and it’s encased in this darker shell. Any idea would be appreciated. I’d just like a name to call out before I cus at it and throw it back out next time. 

 

 

Fun stuff: 

6. tigers and a sand shark. Found another really big tiger in this spot like last trip. This one seems to have center cusp very similar to the Hemi serra teeth. Is that a dental location indicator or specific species? Also these two small tigers have an awesome second barb. Never found these before. 
 

7. crappy Barbra’s tooth, again. Lady needs a dentist.  

 

8. y’all! Look at the size of that spine! I put it next to the regular spines I find for comparison. 
9. I’m in the very slow process of learning about these shell cast. They are specific to something called tamiami shells  but I haven’t really started getting into the info on that yet. Apparently they are pretty darn old. 
10. mammoth frags 

11. is this a nurse shark tooth? 

 

For the big finish I wanted to show y’all this rock I found. Something seemed off with its weight and the darker colors under the surface made me wonder. So I tried to cut it in half but that didn’t work. Masonry disc on an angle grinder got laughed at by the rock so maybe tile saw next attempt?  I definitely want to be able to cut slices next time. 
 

Grinder fail meant we do what any self respecting ADHD person does and I hit it with a hammer.  bingo. 

 

So…. What did I find?!?  I polished out the pieces and goodness gracious it’s beautiful. My shop is set up to grind and polish metal/wood. As such my abrasives aren’t made for rock and I think I used about $30 in belts just polishing these two pieces.
 

Any advice on what I need to do this in a controlled manner with appropriate equipment would be greatly appreciated. I really wanna cut thin  slices of the next one I find and polish it to glass. 

 

Not too shabby for a Friday morning!  Next time I think we may actually start going into the yet to be hunted depths!

 

Keep the faith and try to do good!

 

Jp and Millie 

 

 

If you have a minute read the linked post about the “butter zone” a few post back. Harry’s answer completely reset my mind on this fossil hunting process and the theory I’ve been contemplating. There’s definitely theory but I like the short term mindset of Harry’s approach.
 

Below are the references I used for ID 

 

This photo popped up while I was doing the images for the post. I’m not kidding when I say this dog has had my back since 3months old.  
 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Balance

[dries85]

That's a Nice dolphin tooth indeed 👌 and i believe your number 11 is actually a Stingray tooth plate.