Land Of The Large Nautiloid

[sward]

I decided I needed to find some new spots to hunt, so this morning, after doing some investigation using Google Earth, I planned a road trip west of the Ft. Worth, TX area. Using Google Earth, I had spotted a creek that looked promising, so I drove to the area to check it out. I found the bridge as planned, pulled over off the shoulder of the road and proceeded into the creek to check it out. Immediately after crawling down into the creek, I was greeted with these two scenes:

I proceeded to look around a bit more and proceeded to the other side of the creek to following these outcrops:

While walking along these outcrops, I found a couple of large nautilus that part was still imbedded in the outcrop and part was already broken away. One of these nautilus had to be at least 24 inches (approx 10cm) in diameter. I continued down the outcrops to see what else I could find and thought I would take a pic of these large partial nautilus on my way back. I did find a complete nautilus still imbedded in the outcrop:

I then found this piece laying at the base of the outcrop:

Shortly after this, I heard someone hollar and turned around the see two deputy sherrifs standing on the other side of the creek. They asked me to come back over the creek and talk to them. Long story short, they escorted me back to my truck, checked my driver's license, checked my back-pack, then proceed to tell me that I couldn't be there and needed to be on my way.

Not necessarily wanting to be ticketed or go to jail for "trespassing", I decided it was time for me to leave. Quite a disappointment considering I had been in the creek less than an hour and it looked quite promising considering the short time I got to spend there. Needless to say, I never did get a chance to take any pics of the large nautilus.

[erose]

But did you snag that puppy in photo #2?

[trempie4]

Heartbreaker Sward. I would have had to do a night recon with stealth gear, that ammo was too sweet. Don't think I cold have left the county without it...

[Boneman007]

Those look like eopachydiscus ammonites.

[Ramo]

What are the laws in Texas regarding creek wading? Here in KS you need landowner permission unless you are on the MIssouri, Arkansas, or Kansas Rivers. I thought in Texas if it was float-able, it was fair game?

Ramo

(Asking because I plan on beining in some of those Texas creeks in a couple weeks)

[sward]

But did you snag that puppy in photo #2?

It wasn't as nice as it looked while in the water:

The whole situation was a disappointment

[trempie4]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You just have to find a better spot to park that car.....

It's funny, I live in Baltimore and a few years ago my girlfriend's car was totaled in a hit and run. The cops wouldn't even come to file a report as there is too much real crime going on. Advised us to call a wrecker and our insurance company.

Now if only there was a collecting site here in the city, I know the police would never bother me....

Edited February 24, 2012 by trempie4

[sward]

What are the laws in Texas regarding creek wading? Here in KS you need landowner permission unless you are on the MIssouri, Arkansas, or Kansas Rivers. I thought in Texas if it was float-able, it was fair game?

Ramo

(Asking because I plan on beining in some of those Texas creeks in a couple weeks)

I don't profess to know for sure, but I've heard that if the waterway is navigatable (I don't know what is considered navigatable), it is considered public land. When I first entered the creek at the bridge, when I looked left, there was a fence across the creek with signs saying "Non-Navigatable Waterway", "No Tresspassing", "Area Under Video Surveillance", etc. Needless to say, I did not even attempt to go in that direction.

Not wanting any trouble, I just did as the dupties said.

[mikecable]

http://www.swf.usace...ion/navlist.pdf

Texas navigable waters of the United States--These are under the control of the Army Corps of Engineers.

http://world.std.com...hert/jr_nav.htm

A brief description of the law as it applies to smaller streams under state control.

But I wouldn't argue with the men with guns either.

[mikecable]

Many years ago there was a stretch of the Llano river that was canoeable after a rain, and lot of folks liked to use it. One rancher who owned the land on both banks was well known for coming down to the river and cursing, shaking his fists, and even occasionally firing a gun into the air. He never did anything more, at least as far as I heard. You were even allowed to hunt in the river bed, but they may have changed that law.

[Taxman56]

Since those nosey mounties have nothing better to do, maybe you can talk to the owner.

I know I love to find one of those large Ammo's myself

[RickNC]

Curious why they ran you off.

[sward]

Curious why they ran you off.

According to them, I was tresspassing on private property and my truck was parked on the right of way.

[Missourian]

According to them, I was tresspassing on private property and my truck was parked on the right of way.

Was there purple paint marking trees, posts, etc.? That means 'no trespassing' in Missouri.

And what does 'right of way' mean? Not being able to park on shoulders would really put a cramp on our style.

[sward]

Was there purple paint marking trees, posts, etc.? That means 'no trespassing' in Missouri.

And what does 'right of way' mean? Not being able to park on shoulders would really put a cramp on our style.

When I entered the creek at the bridge, there was a fence across the creek to the left of the bridge with no trespassing signs on it so I didn't go that direction. I went the other direction to avoid any problems. I never saw any purple paint either. I don't know if that applies in TX or not. I had forgotten about that until you mentioned it, but now I remember reading that in some posts some time back.

According to the deputies, my truck was parked next to the road, therefore, in the right of way. When I parked, I made sure to pull completely off the shoulder of the road to where my tires were on the dirt next to the shoulder just to make sure I couldn't be accused of impeding traffic. The shoulder was plenty wide for me to park on it and still not impede traffic, but again, I didn't want to have any problems so I parked completely off the paved surface. I've never had a problem parking next to a bridge like this before and I've seen several law enforcement vehicles drive by while parked. Heck, I had one drive by while I was getting my back-pack out of the truck and they just kept going.

The deputies in this case seemed to be playing a bit of a "power trip". I never tried to argue with or question them and did everything they asked. I noticed they were inspecting the contents of my truck as well. One of the deputies would start asking me questions while the other one would be peeking in the windows of my truck to see what I had inside the cab and in the bed of the truck (of course the bed is full of rocks, fossils from past trips, a couple of cow bones, etc.). Then, they would switch who was asking the questions and the other one would go to the other side of my truck and be looking in the cab. I didn't have anything to hide, so I offered to unlock the truck and let them poke around all they wanted. They asked to inspect the contents of my back-pack that I had been carrying. Again, with nothing to hide, I gave them permission. The deputy removed all of the contents (rock hammer, rope, cloth bags, pill bottles, screw driver, etc.-you know all the miscellaneous stuff we carry) and looked in every compartment. He seemed to get excited when he shook one of the pill bottles and heard something rattling inside. He asked me what was in it and told him it was probably some fossils from a past hunting trip. Sure enough, he opened it only to find a small heart urchin and some shark teeth I keep in my bag for just such occassions.

I have encounted law enforcement officers in the past while fossil hunting, and sure, they want to know what you're doing. Once you tell them, the conversation usually turns to fossils and they start asking about what you've found. Some show some real interest. That's when I bring out the pill bottle with the shark teeth and offer to let them have a couple to take home to their kids. They've always been grateful for the offer and let me proceed on my way, usually wishing me luck.

These two deputies just seemed to want to play their power trip, so needless to say, I didn't offer them any of my shark teeth.

[Missourian]

I wonder if there was some recent incident in the area that the deputies are still edgy about.

Or perhaps the deputies are friends with Mr. Video Surveillance and are helping him keep 'riff-raff' away from his land.

[Auspex]

I wonder if there was some recent incident in the area that the deputies are still edgy about.

There could be more to their "interest" than we know...

[sward]

I wonder if there was some recent incident in the area that the deputies are still edgy about.

Or perhaps the deputies are friends with Mr. Video Surveillance and are helping him keep 'riff-raff' away from his land.

Yeah, that's it. I look like "riff-raff". I'm a scrawny 50 year old fart with a flat-top haircut. Real scary looking.

One of the deputies mentioned that they had run off a couple of guys who were in the same creek in the past. He said these two guys were down there drinking beer and shooting hand guns. That I can understand!

Edited February 25, 2012 by sward

[Auspex]

...One of the deputies mentioned that they had run off a couple of guys who were in the same creek in the past. He said these two guys were down there drinking beer and shooting hand guns...

That would do it.

[Missourian]

One of the deputies mentioned that they had run off a couple of guys who were in the same creek in the past. He said these two guys were down there drinking beer and shooting hand guns. That I can understand!

That's what I meant by 'riff-raff'. When looking in creeks, I often find discarded beer bottles and cans. Who knows what else they do....

[surfergirlatx]

WOW WOW WOW!!! I say GREAT hunt!

Regarding waterways in Texas, I make sure to look at the counties appraisal roll and see who the land owner is and ask permission prior to entering a creek bed.

[Missourian]

Regarding waterways in Texas, I make sure to look at the counties appraisal roll and see who the land owner is and ask permission prior to entering a creek bed.

Thanks much for the suggestion. Here's an area of my county:

Now I know most of my haunts have been on public land.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Missourian

[BobWill]

Maybe you could have asked them what exempted this creek from corps of engineers regulations because you had plans to collect on other creeks that you thought were in compliance with the 30 ft. rule. You could explain that you didn't want to waste their time in case other areas were off limits too. This way they would know that you were aware of your rights, and if there were special reasons for enhanced security on this site you could assure them that you would gladly comply now that you were aware of it. But since every 30 ft. creek in the area wouldn't have special status this would have put them on the spot to supply a reason. You might also consider visiting the local law enforcement center with the intention of being sure you are complying with their regulations concerning parking on right-of-ways and waterways exempted from corps rules. This would compel them to supply specific laws they are enforcing and not just responding to the whim of a particular officer. Then if you had a the same problem again you could mention who you talked to at headquarters and what they told you.

[Herb]

Most of the law enforcement people I encounter are pretty nice people, they usually won't bother you if you are off the right of way and not on an Interstate road or some restricted access roads (KY,OH,MI,IN,TN,AL,FL,VA). I did get run off a site in Ohio that I did not know was an US route, but the OSP officer was very polite and even offered to help us down of the site. In most states a navigable water way is any thing that will float a boat in normal conditions, but in most areas the river bed the water flows over is owned by the land owner , if you can collect from the boat/canoe it is OK, if you get out and start walking in the water you are tresspassing.Also usually the land under and direcly adjacant to a state bridge is state property and you can usually collect ok. Hope this helps.

[FossilDAWG]

Most of the law enforcement people I encounter are pretty nice people, they usually won't bother you if you are off the right of way and not on an Interstate road or some restricted access roads (KY,OH,MI,IN,TN,AL,FL,VA). I did get run off a site in Ohio that I did not know was an US route, but the OSP officer was very polite and even offered to help us down of the site. In most states a navigable water way is any thing that will float a boat in normal conditions, but in most areas the river bed the water flows over is owned by the land owner , if you can collect from the boat/canoe it is OK, if you get out and start walking in the water you are tresspassing.Also usually the land under and direcly adjacant to a state bridge is state property and you can usually collect ok. Hope this helps.

All good advice, but in the interests of the broad audience for this Forum I would emphasize the need to check the rules for your state. In Georgia the usual Federal definition of a navigable waterway does not apply. The courts apply the State definition, which restricts navigable waterways to those large enough to support commercial barge traffic. There are few navigable rivers in the State, and none upstream of the Fall Line. It doesn't matter if you can float a canoe, kayak, or logs down the stream, the question is can you float a barge, or a paddle steamer in the era when the law was enacted.

If you aren't sure, it is a good idea to ask the local police, as Bob suggested. Dan Woehr posted a story about a deputy giving him a hard time until he mentioned the name of the guys supervisor while explaining how he had discussed his plans at the police station and was given the all clear.

Don