Shamalama Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 For example, I see a creature in this rock that looks like a frog, or a cat, I'm not sure. frog.jpg frog2.jpg I'm not trying to be funny or anything like that. I'm just demonstrating what is possible when you look at the shapes that these ridges, valleys, and hills. The way you drew that... I see a beaver! -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I will put them in the freezer now "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) The first spider didn't appear until the upper Carboniferous, just fyi Edited November 21, 2014 by Herb "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think it looks more like a crab than a spider. But I see all sorts of fossils in the clouds when I look for them. ynot Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 For example, I see a creature in this rock that looks like a frog, or a cat, I'm not sure. frog.jpg frog2.jpg I'm not trying to be funny or anything like that. I'm just demonstrating what is possible when you look at the shapes that these ridges, valleys, and hills. I se Simon's Cat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think it is unwise to dismiss the possibility of such an important site without first hand, on the scene inspection of the material. I find this kind of ridicule quite unscientific, not to mention just plain rude ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammada Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 In the samples that have brought me from Moldova there are fossils, and dont need the imagination to see them. I know to find them, but they are difficult to photograph because there are very few fossil traces of organic material, but the casts out there, although there is always something that may resemble but it is not and conversely. I show you a good picture of quartzite Nama (just a little oldest than my "spider"), where something there is certainly. Now I put in the drawer my fantastic (and strictly personal) "Burgess Shale" and I drink a glass of prosecco .... nothing but popcorn! I appreciate your comments and I had fun too, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The first spider didn't appear until the upper Cretaceous just fyi Hi, Herb... http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/34455-three-pennsylvanian-spiders/?hl=spider#entry379536 1 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Might I suggest that at least some of this scepticism might have been avoided if you had been a little clearer about where this piece was found. You're in Italy, but didn't say whether what you are showing is from your country. You were referencing some rather scarce organisms (Hallucigenia and Opabinia) as being in the same deposits... although they aren't found in Italy as far as I know and actually have very limited occurrence. You didn't respond to the question of whether you are referring to published references or self-identification of those specimens.. and it it was self-identification then I think we would rather like to see them. Now you're mentioning specimens from Moldova and also the Burgess Shale. For anyone to make sensible comments, there is a minimum requirement that they at least understand what they are looking at and where it came from. Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 my bad, the first true spiders showed up in the Carboniferous. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Araneae have 8 legs. Please answer the above questions regarding the geologic formation of the specimen. Your response will aid everyone. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammada Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 I named so this one sample because, from what I see, it looks like a "spider", but it is clear that it cant be absolutely a spider. Given the varied fauna associated, though less visible, I allowed myself (without any presumption) to say that it is of the Cambrian period. My main interest was to have an identification, a encouraging opinion from a specialist, consistent with mediocre photographs submitted. But I realize that it is already impossible to be recognized as a fossil. I have had this one as a sample of generic origin from Moldova; where there are outcrops of this period, and I enough to know it. I think if there is a site of special interest is impossible not yet been studied. I collect mainly meteorites, and except in special cases or my discoveries, I am interested only in their classification. Mistakes in this field can be (correct me, have been) unforgettable, but they teach ... .. now I'm learning with fossils. Thanks to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammada Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 To definitively conclude the topic (without doubt and without offend anyone), I also show the strange pseudofossils that I found in company of my impossible spider. Thanks for the attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Unfortunately, we're still in the position where you say these are Cambrian rocks ("without any presumption"). But we're unable to say whether we agree with even that... unless you can say where these rocks are from and how you have determined source strata. Also you keep referring to "associated fauna", and previously mentioned two rather rare fossils which occur in very limited distribution without giving us the opportunity to agree or disagree with your interpretation (assuming it is just your interpretation). Reading between the lines it seems as if all the rocks you are showing are from Moldova, but even that is not completely clear. Is that correct? And does "brought me from Moldova" mean that you personally collected the rocks or that someone gave/sold them to you? The fossils you previously mentioned are not actually reported there as far as I know, Nor from Italy, if that's where the rocks are from. What is then the relevance of you mentioning "Burgess Shale". Do you simply mean you are finding things which look (to you) like rare specimens found in the Burgess Shale? For what it's worth, I'm not seeing anything which suggests that. Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 not to be rude, I don't see anything that looks like a fossil to me. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Love "Simon's Cat" jpc Edited November 24, 2014 by Herb "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammada Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 I mentioned Burgess Shale simply because some pseudofossils (to me) looked like to specimens found there, in particular Hallucigenia (for the ridiculous origin of the name), which today are not able to photograph decently and in any case would not change the situation. I have not personally collected the samples, because going in Moldova means above all to go looking for trouble; The "professional" photo of Nama quartzite (origin Namidia) was posted only to see even there no one sees fossils. I passed every curiosity about the "spider" Cambrian, but now I look at it with some affection and must stand in the showcase. I will be more careful, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 ...I mentioned Burgess Shale simply because some pseudofossils (to me) looked like to specimens found there, in particular Hallucigenia (for the ridiculous origin of the name), which today are not able to photograph decently and in any case would not change the situation... You should have stated this a couple of pages back. In the end, your reasoning does not match well with your previous comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I believe we have run aground. 1 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Allowances need be made for language translation; nuances of grammar which effect judgment are a little scrambled here. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I agree with Auspex.. people have been jumping on things which may have been intended differently (At first I thought the reference to Opabinia and Hallucigenia were just a way of saying the rocks are the same age as Burgess and that this therefore may be a Cambrian Explosion organism, but I may be wrong! Who knows?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammada Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 The topic that I thought as a nice little curiosity, has become for me a kind of meat grinder, as further confirmation of the Murphy's Law. Unfortunately to discuss constructively for something is necessary that something exists ....or better, existed. Thanks to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammada Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 To remove any doubt for the observer, here is the pseudo fossil of "Hallucigenia", length 1 cm. My only doubt is how did the pseudo fossil "spider" to leave even a trace its last movement. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepTimeIsotopes Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 If this "spider" is a fossil do you know what the scientific name of it is so we can see what you think you've found? We'd be able to search it on the Internet and find other examples of it. Each dot is 50,000,000 years: Hadean............Archean..............................Proterozoic.......................................Phanerozoic........... Paleo......Meso....Ceno.. Ꞓ.OSD.C.P.Tr.J.K..Pg.NgQ< You are here Doesn't time just fly by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) To remove any doubt for the observer, here is the pseudo fossil of "Hallucigenia", length 1 cm. My only doubt is how did the pseudo fossil "spider" to leave even a trace its last movement. Thanks Unfortunately, that doesn't "remove any doubt" because no-one could really identify it from that photograph... which is not even sharply focussed. Some simple, specific questions: 1. Where is that specimen from? 2. What is the age of the deposits? 3. How do you know the age of the deposits? 4. Is Hallucigenia reported from those deposits and if "yes", what is the reference publication? 5. Who has identified this specimen as Hallucigenia? Some simple specific answers please. Edited November 28, 2014 by painshill Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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